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Our Future Vision: Full Spectrum Liberty -inc. Audio
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RedMahna



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1512
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ta Seti wrote:
Quote:
I guess I should never have brought the 'utopia' word into the conversation.


No, I apologize, Ta Seti.. I wasn't trying to criticize negatively. Of course I agree with freedom and liberty. Perhaps it was my misunderstanding by taking the terminology out of context.
And regardless of context, you are correct in saying that remarks such as I have made would keep members from expressing their ideas.

So, again, I apologize... to everyone, really.

Next time I try to make a point, I hope to use better diplomacy.
Especially for the fact that I do not know everything.

Thanks for pointing this out, and for getting the thread back on track.

Red

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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 7737

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: Forum Members Discuss FSL & THE NWO Reply with quote

Audio: Full Spectrum Liberty
and the New World Order

A Live Discussion with Forum Members.

We discuss the idea of a new system of global liberty
designed to serve the interests of the individual, and the current state of
the New World Order attempt to impose global corporate elite dominance


Forum Members Navari, Ormond, RedMahna, DaftAida,
JeffS, Matt and Urbanspaceman
join Fintan Dunne.

"The Next Level" Internet Radio Show

DSL Mp3 Audio
http://www.breakfornews.com/audio/NextLevel070226a.mp3

Dialup Mp3 Audio
http://www.breakfornews.com/audio/NextLevel070226.mp3

Quote:



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Dale
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to hear all your voices guys, and gal! As I am in the process of painting and decorating right now, new audios are just what I need, so thanks Very Happy I was about to replay all the 3i Audios when the email came through about this one. So I got stuck straight in.

And there I was, up my ladder, when I heard the dreaded words, Vatican Assassins! Twisted Evil I held my breath and stopped painting. Surely someone at BFN was going to say something about this?!?!?!? That Vatican Assassins is a crock of sh&t?!?!?! No kidding, I was all set to leave BFN... and I only arrived here a few weeks ago.

DaftAida, really, how do you reconcile your belief in the Vatican Assassins stuff with being at BFN?????

Fintan, thank you for eventually stating quite categorically your view on the V Assassins. I mean, you had to. If you hadn't, all your work here would have been destroyed.

Re the discussion on an alternative currency, that was tried by those of us 'non-capitalists' who were trying to live alternative lives in the 1980s. It simply doesn't work. I can't even remember what we called the system back then, but I remember that in each locale we gave the unit of currency a different name, like toggle, or bobble, or something equally ridiculous. You run into far too many problems to make it workable... like what do you do if someone does a crap job of painting your house or fixing your car? Withdraw your toggles? It's just too complicated a system to work. Money is far easier. So that involves 'ethics'.... oh, here I go again! I think it was Ormond who said that we don't necessarily need to change the present currency system and that reducing personal spending instead was another possibility. That is something that could be explored in greater depth at some point perhaps...

And Matt's point about people in 'multi-cultural' Britain just simply getting on with it - life - and not harbouring all this hatred for one another that we are told about in the media, is so true. I might live out in the sticks, but my family live in inner city Leeds (as multi-cultural as London), and whilst city-living does bring certain problems, when I visit Leeds, I see a lot of straightforward co-existence. And people are not living in FEAR!

Anyway, just some first thoughts and .... you know me...... I'll probably have more comments after I've listened for a second time! Cool
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just0



Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NICE, thanks to everyone for this, you made excellent thought provoking listening, well done guys and Matt I couldn't stop laughing when you said
DaftAida, 'coz to me, It sounded like you called her Darth Vader, LOL (well, it was funny at the time) Vatican Assassins!!... that was funny too. Surprised


I think everyones making excellent contributions on fleshing out the FSL idea, as for my views on the subject, I've a similar outlook to most here.
I believe we're watching the end of an empire, these guys will not be around for much longer and so creating the alternative should be the priority.
It's a huge task to undertake, but we can make some good progress by just networking and kicking ideas about, we're taking baby steps at this stage,
as Fintan put it. Smile

For me, it's hard not to bring some of R.B.Fuller's insights into the mix, after all, he was dedicated to acheiving the very same goals as we have
set out to achieve and IMO he was one of the most comprehensive thinkers of the 20th century. Although our understanding on these matters on a socio-
political level are light years ahead of the rest (not to sound boastful Wink), in a similar way, Fuller was light years ahead of his time in developing
alternatives to what he saw as an obsolete system.

In his 57 year 'experiment' R.B. Fuller devoted himself to making humanity a success, not through the usuall outlets of political or social change,
(trying to reform the individual as he put it) but through developing technology and tools that would improve living standards at minumum costs, and
disprove the old assumptions that it had to be 'you or me'(dog eat dog), i.e. that there wasn't enough wealth to go around. Evidence that this is'nt so,
is the fact that technology is always progressing in such a way that you can do more and more 'work' with less and less energy put in (Ephemiralisation
as he called it), and by pinning down the real meaning of the word wealth, you can honestly say that real wealth is metaphysical know-how which in some
form or another sustain's life, so then, real wealth can only increase and never decrease. This uprooting of such a fundamental missasumption of
conservative thinking, gets to the heart of so much of the justifications we see for greed in society.


Quote:
...money is not wealth and that wealth is the organized technological capability to protect, nurture, educate, and accommodate the forward days of humans, whereas money is only a medium of exchange and a cash accounting system. Money has become completely monopolized by the supranational-corporation colossi, which inherently as legal abstractions ignore the problem of how to protect and nurture human lives.



Through his comprehensive approach to problem solving, he became adament that the political aparatus was keeping us trapped in an obsolete worldview,
where people had to elect someone else to make shure that their 'side' wasn't left to go hungry. Although he considered himself apolitical, Fuller
was right on the money when he said that the supranational entities and local political barriers were a major factor in keeping us from having
a planet of "4 Billion, Billionares"(circa 1970).

By turnng the Military Industrial Complex's fixation with developing machinery to kill on it's head, Fuller engineered ways of improving the standard
of living through using the very same technology. This turning the weapons industry of 'Killingry', into one of 'Livingry', reminds me of what Fintan
pointed out in the audio, he said that the medical profession as it stands makes a profit from sickness and by turning that on it's head we can force it to
rely on making people healthy in order for it to survive. This concept of a teledemocracy was also something which he envisioned happening in the future
along with big cities becoming less and less important as people began to move back to the countryside as technology advanced.

I've posted a short book called 'Grunch of giants' here, (GRUNCH = Gross Universal Cash Heist) although some of the information is dated and not as
politically informed as the analysis here, I think that he makes some good points about the 'nature of the beast'. It's well worth checking out IMO and
in classic fullerian style, gives a positive taste of how a 'design revolution' can take on the legally abstracted coorperate entities and make technology
work for everyone.


Quote:
"Never before in all history have the inequities and the momentums of unthinking money-power been more glaringly evident to so vastly large a number of now literate, competent, and constructively thinking all-around-the world humans. There's a soon-to-occur critical-mass moment when the intuition of the responsibly inspired majority of humanity, in contradistinction to the angered Luddites and avenging Robin Hoods, faced with comprehensive functional discontinuity of nationally contained techno-economic system, will call for and accomplish a world-around reorientation of our planetary affairs. At this critical moment will occur a realization by the responsibly inspired majority that the adequate capacity of the invisible technology to sustainingly support all humanity depends on all the resources, physical and metaphysical, being always and only employed for all of world-around humanity as a completely integrated techno-economic system operating entirely on its daily income principally of Sun-emanating energy."



So IMO, we're right on track for massive change in society, similar to some of the things that Fuller predicted, albeit prematurely.
The Internet is already running rings around the supranational goliath and a new Renaissance is here to stay Wink
The major thing holding us back right now, is the Pyswar campaign, but people are catching on, thanks to the kind of people here.

_________________
~"“True observation begins when devoid of set patterns, and freedom of expression occurs when one is beyond systems.”"~


Last edited by just0 on Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:55 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Nat



Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 840
Location: minime-rica

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i definitely said DaftAida, it's these new dentures Laughing

this is a bit of good ole synchronicity..."The way out of this mess?, Ideas and ideologies for discussion"...

sourced from J7
The Antagonist wrote:
Prospect Magazine has asked a hundred writers about the politics in the 21st century;
Quote:
The big question

March 2007 | 132 » The big question » The big question


We asked 100 writers and thinkers to answer the following question: Left and right defined the 20th century. What's next? The pessimism of their responses is striking: almost nobody expects the world to get better in the coming decades, and many think it will get worse

Read the responses here.

many people asking the same sorts of questions


Last edited by Nat on Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:46 pm; edited 3 times in total
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navari
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just0 wrote:
This turning the weapons industry of 'Killingry', into one of 'Livingry', reminds me of what Fintan
pointed out in the audio, he said that the medical profession as it stands makes a profit from sickness and by turning that on it's head we can force it
rely on making people healthy in order fro it to survive.

To zero in on one point - it seems that this notion of aligning
industries' profit motives with the motive of human kind could certainly be
one of the core values associated with FSL.
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zak247



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 949

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some ideas:

Ken Wilber is kind of light in terms of politics, since his Integral Institute WONT DENOUNCE THE Iraq War, because they believe to do that wouldn’t be “integral”!


Philosophically there is no such thing as absolute liberty; any system has included in itself the limiting apparatus to balance it.

So realistically we need to define what is slavery and what a genuine idea of liberty we can pursue.


Real liberty exists on many levels, since some people think being forced to work in a capitalistic industrial society is slavery. This is a philosophical idea, but still it is an existential reality that we are forced to work, or starve save those who are wealthy, now they have real choice in that regard.

If we are SERIOUS about understanding liberty we must define its opposite, slavery.
We might define those things that need to be eliminated to gain this liberty


On a spiritual level true freedom is only arrived at by the individual, and his struggle to liberate himself from their own lower selfish desires. As they say:

To conquer the world, one must conquer oneself, and then you will have had conquered the world.
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Ormond



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 1556
Location: Belly of the Beast, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding is that slavery is exploitation of any person by another, in which the interpersonal 'contract' is inequitable, and the exploited one is forced to accept it through force, coersion, or deciept (fraud).
Any transaction that results in inequity without recourse to release and restitution.

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Wu Li



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 573

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:37 pm    Post subject: My two Cents..... Reply with quote

Great show! Can’t wait to hear more.

I love to see this kind of forum involvement.

First I would like to start with the “Vatican Assassins” comments made by Dale.
I do believe that in any large communal organization you will get a certain amount of influence within society (at least if you look at numbers). Just as the masons or the Zionists seem to get their way, which has been revealed at times. To me, this shows within society to be normal. People come together with an agenda (or many) and work towards these agendas to see it gets done. This gets done through the very pyramid style (or TREE) structure, which has for some reason become such a mystery to many within our world. Probably because as it gets lower down the scale the original knowledge or intent gets lost and is just perpetuated. Sometimes the agenda of the few are not what is beneficial to the many. So I guess this creates a point of contention, which the average man cannot solve, but for creating some large mysterious event around the very issue he/she may feel powerless to prevent. Do not get me wrong, there are many events that need explaining but I bet most are fomented through greed and perhaps ignorance. This is a purposeful creation in order to keep the brainwashing effect a constant.

Overall I agree with your and Fintans assessments. There is not one organization or group ruling the world except for the coalescing interests of the “haves” against the have-nots. What the true issue always comes down to is the moral or ethical degree in which these individuals conduct themselves. We are obviously at a crossroads in human sensibility and these "haves" have brainwashed people into believing that if we grab and grab (Stab others in the back to get ahead) our way to success without caring about repercussions which are put upon our fellow human beings we will become a society in decline (I guess you may even consider this Mercantilist in nature). I do believe this is happening already but just like any universal content our human energy/ability/love will not be lost. I cannot believe that if energy is never lost then we as a part of this grand system will allow ourselves to be lost. We always hear about dying civilizations of the past but has anyone stopped and thought that these civilizations did not die, but transformed into something new and in most cases more beautiful. This is the very system, which they wish to impose on humanity. Although there system is not what we all have in mind (the point of contention). There is no doubt we as people from around the world here on this forum wish to live in peace and love for a better future. A world that no one will go hungry or be forced to live in a box on the side of the road, they have taught us that this is not possible in order to create the separations you all have spoken about on many occasions. The Left/right, liberal/conservative, black/white, Christian/Jewish/now Muslim etc…. Why should we care? Isnt this what we have been taught? Care about yourself and maybe those you wish to care about?

As per our founding documents (I can only speak as an American), local organization through municipalities and moving up the scale right to state level is the best way for individuals to have a say within the structure of this system. I am all for the idea of preaching the importance of community and local/neighborly involvement within small communities and in turn developing strong relations with others. This keeps the system true to the ideal of liberty through direct community participation (even the little guy can be an important part of the system (such as the farmer)). Understanding the issues within that community and not a one plan fixes all mentality. Government is the people.

I would also say that the assessment that things have been noticeably changing is true (I think I heard this alluded to). I have been noticing that on many of the more commercial talk shows I listen to while driving back and forth from my job (not my avocation friends), callers have more and more been calling in with points of view that all here would appreciate. I do believe the last hand is being played but I disagree that they would not try their hand at Armageddon. If an animal feels that it has nowhere to go and pushed into a corner it will attack. I am not suggesting a sudden attack such as that analogy but a slow methodical attack. This is the reason for this discussion. Navari has pointed out something great. If it doesn’t make sense for the people then we must go the opposite direction (in a sense).

Overall, getting people to understand these ideas and showing that this all makes common sense is the first important step. Common sense or that important part called intuition is something that has been purposefully forced out of the collective thought processes. We need to get it back into people. This idea that if something doesn’t seem right or if something doesn’t feel right it probably is not, this is so crucial. The next level is the questions to be asked and answers which may lead all of us into a more beautiful future.

I hope this made some sense.
Great show! Can’t wait to hear more.
Best Regards

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Nat



Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 840
Location: minime-rica

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a superbly quotable post from The Antagonist, here ...so i'm quoting it Wink
The Antagonist wrote:
Kier wrote:
People don't need governments.

That's my summary Smile

Everyone has always known that, that's why they have police and a military and pass reams and reams of laws to allow them to fuck anyone, everyone, anything and anyone up. If it's the law, it's legal, it's lovely and anything goes. Regina and the organised bodies of state Vs You. The only reason the mafia is illegal is because the state got their protection racket and bodies of armed men going first.

says it all, makes it all make sense

so, on that mafiosi logic, all we need to do is present too many 'stones in their shoes' for the stone removers to handle...and leave them hobbling
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Damian Flynn



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 219
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just feeling a bit sorry for DaftAida, she might get the impression that we're ganging up on her. I'll try to point out some obvious problems with "Vatican Assassins". If you check google video, you can find a spooky lecture here
LINK

We can't all be on the exact same level of awareness, and I'm sure I'm not as wise as many people on this forum. For a start, the Vatican Assassin is very remeniscent of the whole Jewish conspiracy garbage which has been constantly pumped out by spooks since the birth of Christianity. I'd have to admit that it's a bit surprising that someone on the BFN forum could be sucked into this so easily. Don't worry DaftAida, BFN is all about helping people move up to the next level. The title of the meeting is called "Conspiracy Con" which is very appropriate.
It's extremely easy to create conspiracy theories involving religions, because religions along with other NGOs and major corporations have always been managed by spooks, and are inseperable from government. The spooks love leading people in circles on wild goose chases while they bait Jews, religions and corporations, creating a smoke screen as to what is really happenning behind the scenes.
For a start, the lecture is introduced by Jordan Maxwell, who I've been skeptical of since I watched a video called "The Naked Truth"
LINK

This presentation is hosted by Derek Partridge. Just listen to him introduce himself and take note of his spooky back ground. The video is presented by the IRES. It's very easy. All you have to do is check out what IRES is. It looks like the IRES has vanished from the internet, but when they had a website they were promoting E.T. life, and the AIDS virus. Anyway, Jordan Maxwell provides links to Tom Bearden and rense.com, among others. http://www.jordanmaxwell.com/links.html

These people really aren't that good. They act like they're really smart and enlightened, just because they know Jesus, Santa Claws and the tooth fairy are not real, and then they feed you some BS.
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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One positive phenomena:

Talk radio today, local conservative, Howie Chisek, who several times in the past yelled at me about my opinion on the War (esp Afghanistan), was discussing with someone the pros and cons of "winning" the war in Iraq, and being disrespectful to the President etc., and he closed by saying "the War is not being run by the White House." "What do you mean?" "It's the 'Money Powers' who are making all the decisions, I never thought I'd be saying that, but look around, that's what it is."

He has mentioned the Tri-Lateral Commission before, but I just thought he said that in passing like "yeah i know about those conspiracy theories too", but it seems he knows more than he lets on.

Quote:
People don't need governments.


I don't know that that's true. Didn't people choose to create govts? At least local govts? I think we created positions of public responsibility and oversight. Management. I think we did that for certain sound reasons, and I think if we suddenly devolved to some kind of cashless anarchist community we would STILL wind up creating these positions of public or group responsibility.

Similar positions exist in corporate boardrooms. Similar positions exist even in AA, though AA claims to have no organization, i.e. no hierarchy. In AA, most positions carry only responsibility and drugery, little glamour, so there is no big attraction for corruption.

This is the problem with creating positions of public responsibility and management on a scale of large society. Such positions inherently attract control-freaks, "charismatic" stars, and egomaniacs who are drawn to big slimy puddles of money like flies to shit.

Not that much different in spirit from Burn!, but more powerful, more global, sophisticated. I do not think the mere existence of government is the cause of problems. I could be wrong, and I don't want to start calling everyone "comrade", but I still think the problem has always been the reins of democratic governance being hijacked and the system itself perverted by various legalisms to benefit criminal enterprise.

A friend and I were speaking the other night about the vast number of people he has known and knows in the construction business who are
extremely lazy,
dishonest,
theiving,
addicted, and in general suffer from a
lack of integrity.
So widespread that there is no pool from which to draw labor which is 'untainted'.
I think that a lack of integrity is one of those things which harms the person who is the carrier, a crippling spiritual disease, as well as the victims of the carrier. I think that religion and fear had it's usefulness in that it DID help to promote integrity, or at least to mask lack of internal integrity, to some degree. But religion has also been often used to magnify and justify, rather than mitigate.

I would like to see a resurgence of integrity in Western society, as well as globally, where honesty is no longer held to be synonymous with being a "sucker", and where "spin" and "duplicity" is no longer seen as "clever" but as just plain nasty. I would like to live in a world where the betrayer is also conscious of the "pain" of betrayal, as well as of the pain caused to the betrayed. A person with broken integrity is already suffering from that state, but maybe we have strangely gone numb to our awareness of that, maybe we have become progressively sociopathic towards our fellow humans and towards ourselves.

I would like to see integrity rise above mere greed and self-interest (though self-interest can never be eradicated). It's generally necessary for a social system of communal living (village, city, nation-state, world) to maintain some kind of mechanisms to punish or at least stop/prevent breaches of integrity, and to have remedies which are accepted by all which can prevent wild feuds from breaking out, but ultimately integrity is something which cannot be enforced. I think integrity must become desired.

I hope this doesn't sound too quaint or archaic. Any suggestions or additions, or ideas on how to get there?
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