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bornfree



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry Fletcher wrote:
I'm beginning to believe that their greatest strength is in our confusion rather than our ignorance.


I'm beginning to think your onto something. I learn a lot here at BFN. It has the greatest forum.
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DeepLogos



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
CyberInterNetics or what they call the Technotronic Age will replace all human labor, so they do have a final solution to their problems, the elimination of the general population. They call this 'peace' and 'Heaven on Earth'.

Every lead is a path toward population control and that leads to elimination of the rest of us.

While they have focused our attention on robots out of control it is they themselves that will use them to eliminate the rest of us.


There are thousands of opinions as to what the technotronic age will contain in terms of technology and "types" of humans. Rather than reading and believing everything the likes of Carol Quigley, Zbignew Brizinsky, Charles Galton Darwin and Bertrand Russel (amongst many others) writes as the ultimate "plan" for what we have in store, one has to apply a sense of current reality to things. Sure there are signs that things are about to change for us humans, and there has been historical attempts to eradicate large populations of people, but we are not usless eaters waiting for a final solution. Sure we seem to destroy our planet, but we also make it work within the current paradigm, and have done so probably through all previous ages. The worlds population has increased not decresed, especially on the African continent, where culturally and to ensure their old age, people get many children. Some people even claim AIDS is the result of sinister population reduction plans, which it of course it isn't (I refer to other more knowledgable people on this forum for in-dept info on that). The world can support the current number of people, but it requires that we change the way we go about doing things here on earth. It is easy to come to the conclution that inoculation, viruses, diseases, toxic spraying, you name it is part of a grand attempt to exterminate the larger portion of earth's cohabitants, and even though some of it has historical merit, most of it is psychological warfare or scare scenarios we construct in our own minds based on selective research.

Rather than full fleged AI and robomania without a human workforce, the more likely option would be another form of singularity where some people would be "upgraded" gradually both biologically and in terms of cybernetics and AI. Couple this with maintaining the current number of people, by means of euthanasia and birth control, and you get a more realistic/scary (!) picture of what the future holds for us. Emerging technology is like the sword of Damocles, in that it both serves us and can potentially be used against us. The internet is freedom to us, but is also used to keep track of what er are thinking and potentially doing. The "control tecnology" of the future (what we see emerging now) will also bear this double edge to it, but the more scared we become, the less "seductive" and "benficial" the technology has to be.

And this is how it ties in to 911 and the movement that followed. To move things artificially forward (towards global "peace"), you need a false "grassroot" movement. And how do you get a false grassroot movement? By creating an event of multipurpose, one of them being the inevitebility of the rise of some kind of movement. If you know this, you can have everything ready in good time before people begin organizing, protesting and shouting for answers already deviced because they know what you will ask. And everytime anyone goes over the top, that only furthers the agenda or the hidden synthesis. We are taught to think in terms of black and white (war is war, and peace is peace), and as long as we do that, things in progress (war is peace, and peace is war) will continue to progress, only in a more and more "advanced" manner.

Jerry wrote:
Quote:
I'm beginning to believe that their greatest strength is in our confusion rather than our ignorance.


Correct, but both are essencial to both the "controllers" and the potentially controlled. Confusion takes place in the investigative mind and ignorance takes place in the minds of those the most confused ones (alternative mainstream) are trying and failing to wake up. Confusion is our deconstruction "factory" within, and a way to come up with thesis' and anti-thesis' that can lead to a synthesis that is coherent enough to put in the "basket of evidence". The ignorant ones amoung us keeps us looking for more and more coherent scenarios and solutions, and slowly, but certainly, they are beginning to crystalize.

I believe Dylan Avery is a pawn in a game far greater than his expos attempts to reveal. Further, the constant repetition of, lets say, the falling towers, of course serves as a way to keep the emotional aspect surrounding 911 afloat. Couple that with an irakian man (with tears in his eyes) thanking an american solider for liberating him from the "monster" Saddam on prime time TV, and you got yourself one effective tool to bolster support and keep people emotionally on the edge of their seat.

Quote:
Roger Waters, Too Much Rope (Amused to Death):
(...)
And last night on TV
A vietnam vet
Takes his beard and his pain
And his alienation twenty years
Back to Asia again
Sees the monster they made
In formaldehyde floating 'round
Meets a gook on a bike
A good little tyke
A nice enough guy
With the same solider's eyes
Tears burn my eyes
What does it mean
This tearjerking scene
Beamed into my home
That it moves me so much
Why all the fuss
It's only two humans being
It's only two humans being
(...)


Even though I have studied the methodology of research and analyais of information and human psychology, I am still struggeling with what one can do to counter the current political trends and methods, and where to begin (continue)?

-EAK-

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:53 am    Post subject: WHODUNNIT Reply with quote

slightly edited
While it may be decades (if ever, but probably) before we know specifically who by name (until we start getting deathbed confessions and beyond-the-grave memoirs), we already know all we need to know about Sept 11.

We need not speculate. We KNOW. We CAN know, or we can choose not to.


Comrades: We do agree on that, do we not?

ALL YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE CIA, AMAZING, CHILLING
031104 Edwin Wilson and the Merchants of Death
I listened to this before and didn't quite get it all, but I heard it again and still had to rewind repeatedly. I had to replay it and concentrate to figure out who was who in the story.
It's worth it, because it eliminates useless options and fairy tale thinking.
Fortunately Winamp allows me to rewind just by hitting the back arrow key.

http://radio4houston.org/takingaim/takingaim031104.mp3

ZAK: I briefly pondered your question: "What if they're right and the TLC plan for Globalism/Socialism IS the best way to go?" Well, before you willingly hand over your sovereignty and liberty to these ruthless fuckers, you should know who they are and how they operate, what their moral compass is --- none.

This talk names names of CIA operatives and military, and a Mossad agt. Even high-level international killers who are dead. The really high-level killers have their own 'conservative' radio shows and positions high in govt "protecting our security" from Al-Qaeda and other dangers.

One interesting thing here is placing in perspective the balance of power btw the CIA vs. the Tri-Lateral Commission/CFR. Sure, they work hand-in-hand, but if CIA theatens top TLC people, well ...

One more interesting thing: I've been calling BCCI a.k.a. "The Bank of Crooks and Criminals" by its more relevant name "The Al-Qaeda International Bank of Pakistan", when explaining this to regular people. I just learned, this 'bank' was actually created by Richard Helms, not Pakistanis. It's a mirror of Nugan-Hand.
Also mentions Frank Carlucci and Colin Powell.

Along a similar vein, as one of the Columbians (possibly Carlos Lehder) said, "Do you think WE created this international drug cartel? We were a bunch of peasant farmers."



In partial defense of Dan Hopsicker, undoubtably these operations and networks DO involve narcotics and arms trafficking, BOTH to fund more covert operations and for private profits. So the look into the narcotics and arms trafficking which is Dan's specialty definitely reveals a map of the links and networks tied to Sept 11.

I cannot blame Dan for pulling on loose threads and seeing what unravels, nor for his other pre-9-11 documentary Drug Lords with the photo of Seal, David Ferrie, and Oswald training on the same base, and ties btw the CIA and drugs and JFK, plus Bush, Clinton, and Clinton/Seal attorney Richard Ben Veniste (9-11 Comm). Dan also did the gumshoe work of finding that famous photo of the Operation 40 guys, Barry Seal and part of the current White House getting drunk in Mexico.

I can only blame Hopsicker on the impression that he seems to limit his scope to actual Arab terrorists who happen to hang out on Republican gambling ships with Bush associates. If his conclusions seem limited to shady narcotics dealing as a final explanation -- or if to the extent that he plays dumb about the big fascist picture going back to Allen Dulles and forward to the Bush family and friends -- OR to the extent that he wants to blame the Saudis as an outside enemy (vs. investigate them to see who in the CIA they work for), then in that case, Hopsicker should be blamed for extreme myopia. i.e., CIA fake.

But his strings DO seem valid to me, as a PART of the picture of an out-of-control criminal operation now called America/Global Govt.

BTW, i re-listened a while ago, and Dan did cite corroborating witnesses to Amanda Keller's story at the apt complex. The fact that she is personally a coke whore is besides the point. The fact that he could not get a direct interview with the key players is understandable, and will be more understandable in light of the revelations in the talk above. My initial impression was that he included the rough-spliced interview with Keller as additional fluff.

(The fact that Amanda's entertaining story never made it to prime time TV is more interesting than what she said. It's certainly not due to some new wave of good taste or fact-checking.)

I might look back and change my opinion, to the extent that he makes Keller a be-all centerpiece, but I was not left with that impression. My impression was that Keller was an interesting B-side. Fintan et. al. may call me nave if he wants. I won't hate him.
Razz


Let me add, I listened to a Ted Turner speech at some university, and he was confronted by some audience member in the Q-and-A on the whole DEPOPULATION scare. Though he could very well be lying, his talk advocated for animals, nature, human beings living in poverty, and his response to the man's question was that he supported the strictly NON-VIOLENT reduction of human population by lowering the birth rate, presumably by some voluntarily incentive, not "culling the herd with Bird Flu". (Others like Kissinger undoubtably have no problem with any ruthless thing, including reducing the population of Iraq with DU.)

But insofar as this speech, Turner is NOT the Illuminati anti-Christ. Screw Alex Jones (on that right wing paranoia). Now Turner MAY present one public face but also clandestinely support fascist activities of Kissinger et. al. --- like Pat Robertson and his diamond slaves --- but there was no indication of that from his public statements that everyone on the right wing fakes ballyhoos.



Let's not pretend Sept 11 is all a big mystery. Too much is OBVIOUS.

It's systemic as well, but it's more than systemic. A tight criminal cabal at the highest eschelon ran this directly, and I imagine there are various circles in Intell kept on a need to know basis. On that conclusion, that they also have foreign counterparts and a network and a BIGGER scheme, is also apparent.


Whatever the specific role of Cheney --- beyond the obviousness of what Mineta stated "Yes, the order still stands" -- and John Judge pointing out that when he was a little kid his dad told him to not sit on the missile battery at the Pentagon -- we can conclude beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Pentagon was an intentional hit, and we can conclude that Cheney was not "out of the loop" nor was Rummy nor other top eschelon people. Cheney is intimately linked with these known criminals going back to Poppy, Ollie North and their ilk.

(Even without Mineta and Judge, we ALREADY KNOW the Pgon is a military fortress, and that these top guys are NOT out of the loop. These points just corroborate. I don't know about anyone else, but I did not need to wait for official proof that Iraq was not a threat to the US, and that the govt was lying about that, nor that there was anything remotely altruistic involved, and the result would be brutal and worse than Saddam.)

We'll need to substantiate more details when it comes time for trials and hangings, but not now.

I concur that the Arabs were decoys and/or tools for operations run by (most likely a faction within) CIA, FBI, and the military.

I suspect it WAS compartmentalized, simply because I doubt that every 2-bit secretary and mid-level analyst was really in the loop on all of it ... though I remain open to the notion that Ray McGovernment is part of the coverup, if for no other reason than his defense of the 'old Order' of Poppy Bush, as if Poppy is retired and no longer "in the loop" despite the fact that he still gets his CIA Daily Briefings. Why? He needs this to conduct "business" I guess.

This is my viewpoint, du jour. I propose we continue to hone in on indisputable key facts and adopt the motto "Let's not pretend this is some big myatery."


Also just for perspective
http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=6365
The Execution of Martin Luther King

Bill Pepper, as a young man went to Vietnam as a reporter. He returned with photos of children burned by napalm that shocked the world.

Martin Luther King saw those photos in Ramparts Magazine in early 1967. Witnesses say that he wept as he looked at them. He asked to meet the young man who had taken them and thus began a friendship between Martin Luther King and Bill Pepper and the King family that has now lasted over 30 years.

This program presents Pepper's detailed, decade long investigative work of the crime scene around the Lorraine Motel and his discovery of the identity of the person who received the murder weapon from King's assassin and disposed of it.
His work also led to the identity of a second group of people at the crime scene. An Alpha One 84 team was in Memphis on the day of the assassination.


De Ja Vu


Last edited by dilbert_g on Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:28 am; edited 4 times in total
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DeepLogos



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Initial attitude:



Quote:
From http://www.takeoverworld.info/ (dilber_g)

Forces and circumstances behind September 11.
"Don't look at the man behind the curtain"

Call this $9.11 in a Jar, but it's sure not Loose Change. It's not In Plane Site either. It's actually obscured vision ... but it's getting clearer.

We won't be Bowling for Al-Qaeda. and the temperature will remain a pleasant 68 Fahrenheit.

Iron-clad assertions on exactly what happened on 9-11 don't really serve credibility. Many "9-11 truthseekers" take leaps into unproven allegations.
It's simple and sufficient to prove what did NOT happen - the govt's conspiracy theory about 19 Arab "lone gunmen" and their Hobbit terror-king in a remote mountain cave.


Links in green: Check site for further info.

Simple and beautifully put in a somwhat stagnated discussion. Investigating the past will reveal an outline of what future plans will potentially be devised, but predicting the future will never make them tell us what really happened in the past.

Adding speculation and what could potentially be disinfo to seemingly make a case stronger will potentially make a case weaker. Showing the pieces that doesn't fit is initially enough to establish a case, making official sources answear these questions 'til they become blue in the face will make the ball roll even faster and showing people what has been done in the name of the 911 operation will at least take down some of the people involved. Subsequent investigations will eventually round up a sizable portion of them. Finding the strongest evidence is not that difficult, but presenting it is difficult. Sorting out the disinfo is what will take, and has taken, the most time. My aformentioned struggle pertains to the specifics of the excution of this task.

To put it shortly...
dilber_g wrote:
Let's not pretend Sept 11 is all a big mystery. Too much is OBVIOUS.


During the process of such a case one would, I feel, discover the undenieable involvment of the higher echelons of intelligence/military, simply because:
1) it is impossible for them not to have seen it coming,
2) the time it took to react to what was in progress and
3) it bears too many hallmarks of a sanctioned intelligence operation (before, on the day and following). [diversions, foreign involment, disinfo, the scale of it, + much more]

This may lead (or am I nave to think so?) to a thorough investigation of the modus operandum and fundamnetal/extended structure of the civil and military intelligence agencies, not because some politicians initially wants it, but because it is demanded by the people. This may again have a rippeling effect as it pertains to other (western?) countries. I too will refer to www.takingaim.info for an in-dept analysis of CIA/ disinfo and related issues (historical and current).

(I have corresponded with Ralph Shoenman and Mya Shone and asked them if they had transcripts of their shows, but they didn't... To much else to do, they said, and I understand. Guess I'll have to do it myself then...Wink)

I will listen to this when I have posted...
dilber_g wrote:
ALL YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE CIA, AMAZING, CHILLING
031104 Edwin Wilson and the Merchants of Death
I listened to this before and didn't quite get it all, but I heard it again and still had to rewind repeatedly. Fortunately Winamp allows me to rewind just by hitting the back arrow key.

http://radio4houston.org/takingaim/takingaim031104.mp3


Update above: So much info! I need to transcribe this...
Special interest: Mark Lombardi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Lombardi

Some of the, what Fintan has coined the CIA fake websites/investigators, of course has a lot of valid information, but they either investigates only one aspect of it, are too general and doesn't go deep enough, go totaly over the top of are infiltrated by information of deliberately "skewed" character. Things like; did a missle hit the Pentagon, did the real planes instead crash into the Atlantc Ocean, did Barbara Olson appear in Europe, what did Andy Card whisper into the ear of Bush, was there a pod on the belly of Flight 175, was it really a 737 that hit the north tower, did Condaleeza Rice call Willie Brown do warn him on the 10th, etc, are based on unsubstanciated claims and are to me obvious red herrings to keep us investigating for the next fifty years.

We may want to avoid things like this too, as reported by Wayne Madsen on his site... Or maybe he's on to something? Wink



(but isn't Condi you know...erh...on the other side of...erh..or was it Laura who..erh..never mind...)

I do have an eye for detail, and there are details that are worth making notes of, and we should, but there are more obvious things that should initiate a process that could lead to some resolve. I suggest we make a list of the things that are worth pursuing (if we can agree Wink) and go to the depth of those. Trying to predict what will happen this coming fall is important, but not so much when it comes to the basics of the issue of resolving 911. Saying that we will never get the facts about 911 does not compute with me, simply because there are so much regarding this operation that doesn't compute.

An example:
Sorry for listing a "fake" website, but if we do a printout of the 911 timeline listed at www.cooperativeretouch.org , uuups, I meant www.cooperativeresearch.org (or other timelines) , and simply remove from the list things that are obvious paths leading nowhere and add things that are missing, wouldn't that constitute some sort of outline as to what aspects of a potential case would hold up against scrutiny? Or am I perhaps being too nave and practical with such a "laymans" approach? I just want something coherent and hands on that could be presented here on the forum.

Analysis of methods of psychological warfare is all and well, and I would certainly want to discuss that more, and the listing of procedures of law is useful as a basis, but we need to be bold enough to recognize what are things worth investigating, and do exactly that, and not yield to the fear of maybe list a few bad leads. Knowledeable people on this forum will tell anyone if anyone is following a bad lead, and that's how it is supposed to be. I trust and hope people will tell me if I attempt to follow a lead that has been followed fruitlessly before.

I will dedicate spesific time to this task following this post, and refrain from posting about all and everything. Given that my time is fairly limited every day, doing a job that takes most of the day, I find that most useful.

I will get back with further suggestions and questions reagarding Operation Blue September soon... (Now, that's a red herring! ...or rather a blue one.. Wink)

Forward we go... Arrow

Remember:
"By Way of Deception Thou Shalt Do War" - this is the Mossad's motto, as relayed by former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky.

-EAK-

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeepLogos wrote:
We may want to avoid things like this too, as reported by Wayne Madsen on his site... Or maybe he's on to something?


Wayne Madsen reported the "Laura Walks Out" headline? OMG.

What could he possibly be "on to"? A real, public martial spat? Gosh, another Monica Lewinsky, only a Negro instead of a Jew.

I read somewhere that Lewinsky was working for Mossad.

But I just don't know if I buy it at all that Clinton could be that stupid to make himself 'blackmailable' over some fat intern --- although anything is possible --- but nothing came of it, not only because it was utterly stupid and a partisan fishing expedition in the first place (to go after the President for "moral turpitude" they all engage in), and the lie Clinton told (that lie, not the lies about Bush's Contra-coke rings operating in Mena) was immaterial to Ken Starr's Whitewater case (which was also a fishing expedition because they are all involved in shady money scams and abuse of power) and most people knew that, but the real reason is because Republicans were inevitably caught doing the same thing and Republican leaders decided that the impeachement would NOT go forward. So it was just a long TV drama.

I personally think there was something to Clinton's "Death List", esp Vince Foster, since the State Police report said Foster was found in his car, and I also think that the Gus Boulis murder that Hop covered could burn Abramoff, but NOTHING will come to any of that.

The Mafia does hits, so does the CIA. It's just business.

I do say -- since Monica L. got facetime on Baba Wawa, Amanda Keller should have gotten face time too. The fact that her lurid, entertaining story did not make prime time ... well I do think that means something, and not that the networks developed 'good taste'.

As for investigations, the govt is INCAPABLE of investigating itself.

Everything is politics, horse trading, and damage control. There is no opposition party with any power, and it's a rare judge who will exercise integrity. The lone judge mentioned by Schoenman in the Edwin Wilson case was 20 years ago. And it was significant, but it still didnt tap Bush or North.

As a matter of fact, that Edwin Wilson case was such a big deal, even I was not aware of it and did not grasp it until yesterday.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne Madsen seems to be reporting a lot of strange, often unsubstantiate things, but then again he "was" NSA...

dilbert_g wrote:

As for investigations, the govt is INCAPABLE of investigating itself.


Nave wrote:

This may lead (or am I nave to think so?) to a thorough investigation of the modus operandum and fundamnetal/extended structure of the civil and military intelligence agencies, not because some politicians initially wants it, but because it is demanded by the people. This may again have a rippeling effect as it pertains to other (western?) countries.


I did not mean government investigating itself, that has been done, and we are all so much worse off because of it, but following an independent investigation taking place her where all the relevant and good inforamtion and proof will be gathered, we need some sort of channel of presentation where the public gets to be familiar with the real facts, don't we? Following that one must nessecarily use some of the exising stuctures of some or many government(s) to change it, only scutinized by a well informed and determined body of international citizens. Showing the "elite" that we know what happend is not enough, that only leads to further management of truth and preception. Revolution also leads back to where we started, as the word itself implies, and only makes things worse, so that is no option. We are not trying to find out if Shrodinger's cat is dead or living or both, we are dealing with some sort of reality, constructed or not. That implies that there must be a way of making people responsible for that reality take responsibility. Or would that too only lead to management of the deeper truths? What should one do then as it pertains to presenting the information officially? Or is there an investigation only to prevent such things from happening again? Haven't we been down that road before?

The same goes with regards to the rippeling effect in other countries.

Am I still being nave? (sincerely).

Maybe I should stick to analysing reality, information and culture? Wink

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:45 am    Post subject: Confusion is Sex Reply with quote

Jerry Fletcher wrote:
I'm beginning to believe that their greatest strength is in our confusion rather than our ignorance.


I think that our willingness to remain 'indeterminate' about undeterminable conclusions is a strength. As always, the willingness to not let a hardened viewpoint become cemented and cured, leaves us open to new ideas.

I don't think confusion is the right word, or the right direction, but neither is too much cocksureness about speculation, patterns, and unknowables.

On the other hand, it's not very helpful to simply say "we have questions about Sept 11."

Does anyone have questions about why the Bush admin refused to testify under oath to their own 9-11 Commission?

I got sick of that lame ass "we have questions" / "there are questions" line that so many experts take. These questions are simply NOT answerable, other than with lies, incredible statements which don't match known facts and/or diverge from other official statements, more stonewalling, or outright admissions of guilt ... which, needless to say, will not be forthcoming.


PS. I realized in a conversation with a 'normie' that Prescott Bush was NOT the lead Nazi, but the whole story is important. He was the waterboy and go-fer. Go-fer for a cabal of international Nazi finance and money-laundering, but a go-fer nevertheless. Like his grandson, W.

Prescott's father-in-law, George Herbert Walker, father of Dorothy the grandmother, on the other hand, who brought Prescott into the family business with his buddies at Sullivan and Cromwell, I'd place Walker in the realm of fascist kingpins. (But I'm not changing my avatar.)


PPS. If this is any indication of the people rising up, two people showed up at the library where i went to talk about the political landscape beh 9-11, and one of them was the organizer from AFSC. At least HE got the point, including that the big pic is beyond Mr. Milquetoast David Ray Griffin's book.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rumsfeld said (2002), DoD nodded their empty heads and everybody laughted and wrote:
"As we know, there are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns. That is to say, we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know."

The mighty pen in my right hand wrote:
I wonder if the dream is dreaming me...

My left hand wrote:
Maybe the thinking hat must come off for a while....[deprogramming]




My girlfriend looked me in the eyes, took my right pen, walked over to the livingroom wall and wrote:
Maybe you need a vacation?


See you all soon...

Wink

-EAK- [/quote]

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilbert.... it's Negress and Jewess. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always wondered this logical inference....if Loose Change is pretty much a disinfo tactic....and i've also always wondered about Avery. Wtf is the background on Dylan Avery? Sorry if this old topic was supposed to be buried.
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