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WTC - The Tower Collapses
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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8437

PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Stephen Jones was Jim Fetzer's guest on his Thursday program on RBN.
He had just completed a preliminary examination of WTC dust sent to him
by a woman who collected a sample in her own apartment and saved it.

This sort of thing came up in Jones' presentation at the 9/11 Symposium
He was accepting samples of steel sent to him by people who said that
the samples were WTC steel. He's accepting dust on the same basis.

Yeah, it sells fine on RBN, but it destroys his credibility with acedemic
peers. They know that you first have to prove that any sample is truly
as it claims to be, before you go on to draw conclusions.
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Mona
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I did wonder about that, but then let it pass. That's why I'm not the world's best sleuth.

The architect's story I had heard before too ... probably a year ago. I don't know whether this particular man writing up an affadavit (or whatever) makes a difference to it or not. Question The fact that Silverstein had advanced plans to bring down the bldgs. because of the asbestos, which were then abruptly halted, is really an incriminating piece of the story if there's any truth in it. Or am I missing something again?
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Mona
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, It just came to me. Idea

This architect's story is a perfect candidate for disinfo. It did cross my mind while listening to the broadcast that this call by Tom the architect was perhaps planned in advance. I have liked the Scholars (and the idea of it, of course ... lends so much credibility), so hate to believe some are not who they say they are. Sad I haven't fully given up on them yet.

I think David Ray Griffin is for sure sincere and on the up and up.
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Neo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:53 pm    Post subject: Nobody ever lost a dime ... Reply with quote

Quote:
It is the wolves that Jones is fighting against—in spite of their strength and even at the price of death. “And make no mistake,” Jones said in a chilling moment, “I know they are going to kill me; I’ve looked at it, I know. Because I know we are going to have success and we’re going to force their hand. But its worth it for the weak—they need us.”


Looking for Truth in the [sic] Los Angeles

Do you see what they're doing? Don't you see what they're doing? — I'll tell you what they're doing. They're just messing with the heads of all the idiots in the “Movement.” They're getting them all locked in and huddled around their internet sites and their symposiums going, “Look at all that's going on! The truth is breaking! The light is shining through!” — While outside in the real world, nobody has a friggin' clue about 9/11!

You want to test that assertion? Go stand on your favorite street corner and ask people walking by. See how many of them think it wasn't al Osama Qaeda.

What a sweet scam. They're putting on a big tv show called “The 9/11 Truth Movement,” for these nutcases to watch. Except the show's on the Internet. On the show, the big bad government is coming to kill the brave scientists, because of all the attention they're getting.

“But its worth it for the weak—they need us.”

Oh man. I wonder if they have any openings for dialogue writers.
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Neo
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:09 pm    Post subject: Freakshow Reply with quote

I am feeling the need to dish more dirt on Carol Brouillet. — Yeah, look at that face. How could you not trust a face like that? Here’s another, with the great Deception Dollar Banner. Dude on the right, holding the other side of the banner? That be me. And behind me is Frank, who might as well be the spokesman for the “Movement.”

Here’s another indymedia page that shows you what the setup looks like in Palo Alto. This was from the days before the great big Deception Dollar, which now flies above the tables. There’s a whole routine for setting up and taking down all these other banners, which consumes about 20 minutes or half an hour before and after the big Tabling Event every Wednesday. All told, the show runs from about 11:00 a.m. to 1:30, which is when busy busy busy Carol has to run off to organize all the million-and-one other things she does. — Cuz she’s concerned. You know.

So picture this table here, and all around there’s these lovely banners flying. With “Another World is Possible,” and the big long Niemoller thing. “First they came for the Communists …” And there’s a U.N. flag sticking in the tree over here, and the “Behind Every Terrorist is a Bush,” which you don’t see there, is standing up on a sandwich board on one side, next to the cardboard model of an oil derrick, etc. The effect is basically … — Well, I’ll let you guess. What do you think it looks like?

Did you say circus? That’s what I said. That’s what I said to Carol. I was really rather appalled, considering the seriousness of the message we were trying to get out. But this is of course back when I was young and stupid, and didn’t realize that that was the whole friggin’ point.

– Who’s that? What’s going on over there?
– Oh, that’s some freak lady who says 9/11 was an inside job.

And there’s cookies for free, you know. And lots of books and bumper stickers and buttons you can buy. And you can sit down and chat with Carol, and participate in the “Listening for Change” project, where you answer the three famous questions. — What are they again? I can’t even remember now. It’s something like, “What do you think are the main reasons for terrorism? What do you think of the events of 9/11? What do you think we can do to make the world a safer place for our children.” That’s pretty much it. Close enough for jazz. She does this to maybe 3 or 4 people each week, and takes down notes of their answers.

– What are you going to do with that stuff anyway, Carol?
– Oh, one day …

Such bullshit.

Last time I saw Carol — she thought I was still talking to her for some reason — it was in Safeway, and she gleefully — she’s almost always gleeful —she gleefully informed me that she was running for Congress. “Did you hear? I’m running for Congress?”

Ok, Carol. You go girl.
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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. I tried to tell a truth movement message board recently that the latest Zogby poll that suggested that "almost 50% of Americans believe the government had something to do with 9/11" was.... exactly that. A suggestion. No basis in reality. A nice thought that was beyond wishful thinking.

Right now, the 9/11 Truth Movement is at a critical stage where it must feel it is on the verge of exploding, or it will simply implode. The power elite are allowing this feeling to permeate the movement, through whatever means necessary - skewed data, small leaks of MSM exposure that the exhuberant members blow up into mountains of relevance. I feel badly, because I have been actively assisting this thing for a few years now, and I wish it would have had more effect. In fact, I'm still trying to help. I just don't see it taking off, and if it does at all, I don't see it going where it's supposed to go.

Who knows, maybe that will be the final nail in the coffin. The reality of 9/11 Unawareness will come smashing down like the proverbial fist of oppression, and everyone will be too exhausted to pick up the pieces.

Then I sit back, pour myself a cosmo from my secret Banned Liquids Wine Cellar, and say to myself, "Well.... maybe this New World Order thing won't be so bad..."

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hawkwind



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 740

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:15 pm    Post subject: In Your Face Reply with quote

In response to ...

http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4178&highlight=#4220

I would like to point out that the "Controlled Demolition" meme is very much in your face. A great example of this is the article posted on the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4666591.stm

You might want to take a gander at the photo below, supplied by a "Reader" ...



Hmm ... so what does Kingstar do for a living? Lets take a look ...

http://www.kingstar.co.uk/demoli.htm

I think WE are a target of some slick opps ... tedious, isn't it? Wink

- Hawk

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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, almost forgot about this connection, thanks for the reminder:

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/07/pictures-from-demolition.html

Rigorous intuition shows us a photo, the BBC's, taken in the immediate aftermath of the London bus bombing.

Notice the white "Kingstar" van parallel-parked opposite the site of the blast? (The van is facing the opposite direction of the bus; the front of the bus had just passed.) Any guess what business is Kingstar's?

Would you believe, "Controlled Demolition...in areas where minimal disruption and minimal noise requirements are paramount"?It may turn out to be nothing, as things sometimes turn out to be, but it's at least another curio for the increasingly curious case of the suicide bombers who weren't. "Why did they buy return train tickets to Luton? Why did they buy pay & display tickets for cars? Why were there no usual shouts of 'Allah Akhbar'? Why were bombs in bags and not on their bodies?" asks The Daily Mail.


http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/07/signalnoise.html

Rigorous Intuition reminds us of the alleged finding of an Arabic flight manual in Atta's rental car left at Logan airport.

The convenience was reminiscent of the early framing of the narrative regarding Lee Harvey Oswald, and anticipated the discovery of Korans in cars nearby the Madrid bombings...

Remember the Kingstar van across from the bus blast?

One of Kingstar's clients "is AMEC, which was not only involved in the renovation of the attacked wing of the Pentagon on Sep11th, but also in the controlled removal of the rubble in DC and at Ground Zero, New York."

Twenty-six year old Anthony Fatayi-Williams was one of those killed on the #30 bus. Fatay-Williams was a Nigerian-born exective of AMEC, which is also a rival of Halliburton's in the reconstruction of Iraq.

source: http://london-bombs.blogspot.com/2005/07/kingstar.html

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Neo
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Kingstar van photos and speculation Reply with quote

Whole page on the Kingstar van here:

http://www.declarepeace.org.uk/captain/murder_inc/site/kingstar.html
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:25 pm    Post subject: The Impossible Collapse Reply with quote



The Impossible Collapse

I'm following up on the dramatic implications of the paper posted by
Hawkwind earlier in the thread.

Quote:
Momentum Transfer Analysis of the Collapse of the Upper Storeys of WTC 1
http://breakfornews.com/offsitearchive/PTransferRoss5.pdf

Author, Gordon Ross says the North Tower could not have fallen just
because the top section fell on the rest of the building -as one floor gave
way from perimiter to core.

He says the Tower would have fallen one floor and then stopped right there.

No further collapse.

So how did everybody else get it wrong?

In part because they only analysed the impact of the top section on the
one floor directly beneath. That's wrong:

Quote:
this type of analysis assumes that the impacts have an effect upon only the topmost storey of the
impacted section. The reality of the situation is that the impacts would have an effect upon
several storeys
in the lower section and for a valid analysis all of these momentum transfers must
be included.

So, many stories end up adsorbing the impact --not just one.



Here's what the falling upper section has to do. It has to compress the
beams in the floor below by 3%. At that point the beams will buckle.

Big question: can it reach the magic 3% figure? Let's see.

It's going to take 13 thousandth of a second to compress by 3%:

Quote:
To shorten the columns of the first impacted storey by 3%, sufficient to complete the
plastic shortening phase, a distance of about 0.111 metres, and allowing a constant speed of 8.5
metres per second, would take a minimum of 0.013 seconds.

But in that time the impact wave travels down a further 16 stories,
below the one being impacted! And as these stories themselves move,
the compression wave has time to move even further.

Quote:
Because these columns suffer a vertical deflection, the attached floors move downwards and they
will therefore have a velocity and momentum.

And so we now have a, say 20 storey, shock adsorber!

But it gets better (or worse --depending on your perspective).

Quote:
The speed of the upper section would be reduced by the collision from 8.5 m/sec to a
speed of less than 4.8 m/sec
...this reduction in speed would again give more time
for the propagation wave to travel downwards through the tower columns and allow that more
and more storeys are so affected.

So the whole tower becomes a shock adsorber which dissipates
fully two-thirds of the impact force.

Quote:
....an energy absorption of some 66% of the total kinetic energy of the falling section.

The real figure would be higher still as the top section would itself deform
as it impacted. But let's see how the figures work out.

Quote:
Energy available;
Kinetic energy 2105MJ
Potential energy Additional downward movement 95MJ
Compression of impacting section 32MJ
Compression of impacted section 24MJ
Total Energy available 2256MJ

Energy required;

Momentum losses 1389MJ
Plastic strain energy in lower impacted storey 244MJ
Plastic strain energy in upper impacted storey 215MJ
Elastic strain energy in lower storeys 64MJ
Elastic strain energy in upper storeys 126MJ
Pulverisation of concrete on impacting floor 304MJ
Pulverisation of concrete on impacted floor 304MJ

Total Energy required 2646MJ

Minimum Energy Deficit -390MJ


Seems we have come up short of the energy needed to initiate further
collapse. Even allowing the most favorable case for further collapse.
The analysis left out a raft of other aspects which would make the
calculations even worse again.

For example, the top section hardly gave way in one instantaneous fell
swoop. And a lot of energy would have gone into breaking spandrel
plates, disconnecting the floor to column connections, crushing the floor
contents, etc..

Those are the figures. So, what do they mean?

Quote:
The energy balance of the collapse moves into deficit during
the plastic shortening phase of the first impacted columns

In other words, it runs out of Ummmmph
before getting to 3%
compression of the beams:

Quote:
In other words it will unload, or bounce. The towers were best
characterised as being a series of springs and dampers, being struck with a large but
relatively slow moving and less substantial series of springs and dampers.

The top would have bounced. Very Happy
The collapse would have stopped at one floor.

This conclusion should not surprise us at all. Because:

Quote:
Like All Skyscrapers, the Twin Towers Were Over-Engineered

Steel structures like bridges and buildings are typically designed to
withstand five times anticipated static loads and 3 times anticipated
dynamic loads. Given that September 11th was not a windy day, and that
there were not throngs of people in the upper floors, the critical load ratio
was probably well over 10, meaning that more than nine-tenths of the
columns at the same level would have to fail before the weight of the top
could have overcome the support capacity of the remaining columns
.

There is evidence that the Twin Towers were designed with an even greater measure of reserve strength than typical large buildings. According to the calculations of engineers who worked on the Towers' design, all the columns on one side of a Tower could be cut, as well as the two corners and some of the columns on each adjacent side, and the building would still be strong enough to withstand a 100-mile-per-hour wind.

Ref: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html
City in the Sky, Times Books, Henry Hold and Company, LLC, 2003, page 133
http://911research.wtc7.net/resources/books/index.html#cityinthesky


So it couldn't have collapsed from fires or gravity and even if
it did colapse it couldn't have proceeded to global collapse.

Somebody got some 'splainin' to do.
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Continuity



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:31 am    Post subject: Lil' nitpick... Reply with quote

Lil' pedantic nitpick:

adsorb - v.t. attract and hold to surface (minute particles of mixture or molecules of gas or liquid).

absorb - # v. - absorb -- (become imbued; "The liquids, light, and gases absorb") v. - absorb, assimilate, ingest, take in -- (take up mentally; "he absorbed the knowledge or beliefs of his tribe")

I think 'absorbed' is the one. Wink

[/johnny_5_impersonation]

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hawkwind



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Source of Controversy Reply with quote

I think it may be prudent to post the original "House Committee on Science" analysis of 911 that everyone in the "alternate news" is trying to debunk. Until I finish reading through this sucker, I will refrain from comment ...

http://www.house.gov/science/hot/wtc/wtcreport.htm

- Hawk

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