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What is money?
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Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent this to a member in response to a PM, but thought it worthy to post here...

It's a shame that Americans at both/all ends of the spectrum still can't see the large writing on the wall. It will take a full catastrophe to jar them into the ancient art of thinking, and even then, they'll be crying, as they are trained to do, for help from central authority.

However, movements are afoot. For example, in Seattle (where I am from, but I live in south Brazil), a small group started an Urban Ecovillage in one of the Seattle neighborhoods and it became immediately very popular. Within months, over a dozen other Seattle neighborhoods had formed their own urban ecovillages and now they are networking, meeting, planning, conspiring, etc. They have invited the filmmaker of that movie I linked to to town to show the movie and to help them develop a currency. It's part of a three-series event.

There is a man named Rob Hopkins who started a movement called Transition Towns that has done well. Here's the wiki they've set up:


Here's a link to a blog along the same idea:


There is a related movement called Cohousing. You can buy books on cohousing at Amazon. Here's a site about it:


Here's a link to the network of ecovillages in and around Seattle. The name is nothing short of brilliant, because we love scallops as much as we love salmon. SCALLOPS (Sustainable Communities ALL Over Puget Sound):


There is one site that seems to be an aggregator of all the ecovillages around the planet. It's a good place to check out:


Go crazy will Google. "Ecovillage", "Permaculture", "Sustainable Communities", "Community Currencies", "Cohousing", - these are the phrases employed.

I'm not sure how far you are from North Carolina, but a prominent Ecovillage is there and they offer courses:


Most ecovillages offer courses as way to earn money and to propagate ideas. One of the best is in Central Brazil. They offer instructions on several ways to build houses from earth, for example. Here's a link to the English version of their site:


This thing will play itself out in a variety of ways. Urban and suburban neighborhoods will use the Transition Town model, rural and small communities will move toward Ecovillages, Permaculture and such. When the crash comes, they will have enough in place to survive, and others will gravitate toward them and the good ideas will propagate. The leaders amongst us must get involved now to work out the kinks.

I'm flying home to Seattle in a couple weeks to meet with some of these people and to share some of the ideas and models I've been working on. Seattle is a very hip town and a germinator of good ideas.

I'll add to this that "Forest Gardening" is another critical piece to this. And don't let the name fool you, you can plant a forest garden in your back yard. Possibly the best book on this subject is a two-volume work by Dave Jacke. Here's a link to his site where you can buy it, or you can find it at Amazon:


And one last link for those of you who want to follow the latest breakthroughs in alternative energy. I love this wiki and you can spend weeks there getting up to speed.


Okay, I lied, there's one last link. It's an example of a community asset that would make for a good investment. First, you buy a small greenhouse, then, you buy the gear at this site that turns it into a self-sustaining hydroponic greenhouse and fish farm. You don't add fertilizer to the plants, you feed the fish, and the fish waste eventually circulates through the hydroponic beds. You can eat the fish, but you don't have to. To make this relevant to the thread, it's an example of a way to spend the excess cash you have that would be falling in value if you socked it away.



"There is only one admirable form of the imagination: the imagination that is so intense that it creates a new reality, that it makes things happen." - Sean O'Faolain
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Location: Capacious Creek

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks bardo Very Happy

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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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Location: western pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks bardo for the links

this type of "stuff" was also somewhat discussed here"

a community based ethanol plant could issue "alkies" a currency redeemable for a certain volume of ethanol fuel, say a gallon. the plant issues an "alkie" for for each gallon produced and retires them as the fuel is purchased. they could be traded within the community for other good and services. they would have value as they are backed by the fuel ethanol that is used by the community.

Birth is the first example of " thinking outside the box"
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Answer To Topic Subject Reply with quote

I think this quote sums up this topic ...

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years ... It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The super national sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto determination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller addressing the CFR.

Rockefeller writes on page 405 of his memoirs: "Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."

Cool ... huh?

- Hawk

"Look up here, I'm in heaven. I've got scars that can't be seen. I've got drama, can't be stolen. Everybody knows me now." - David Bowie
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly the idea, Duane. The community can grow energy, such as suggested by David Blume in that book (he is an accomplished Permaculturist, too), and can serve as the backbone to a local currency.

Here's something very cool along the same lines, - it's a new invention that grows either algae for biodeisel or organic garden produce vertically, and hydroponically in plastic sacks on a rotating thingamajiggy. They can grow nearly ten times more algae per acre than growing it horizontally on a pond.


Same idea. If you don't put the alcohol or biodeisel directly in the tank, it can be burned in a boiler to heat/cool/power a house or to charge the batteries of an electronic vehicle.

It's important to remember that the money must be transparent, and what's most important is the bundle of community goods and services that are in circulation. They are what the money represents and people will be much more willing to, say for example, receive part of their salary in a local currency if they can buy energy and organic food with it.

Among the many breakthroughs in solar energy, here are links to three of the most promising, all of whom have stated they want to target community based solar fields that will occupy 2-5 acres of land and produce 1 megawatt or so of energy. The first has made a huge breakthrough in thin-film solar CIGS tech, the second uses a solar concentrator made of a balloon, of all things, and focuses the light onto a tiny silicon chip inside the balloon. Very cool. The balloon costs them $3 to make. The third uses a more traditional large solar concentrator which focuses the heat on a stirling engine. All are in production.


"There is only one admirable form of the imagination: the imagination that is so intense that it creates a new reality, that it makes things happen." - Sean O'Faolain
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James D

Joined: 16 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just as a little follow up on the Worgl Schilling story it seems that the towns mayor Michael Unterguggenberger had read a book “The Natural Order” by Silvio Gesell and used it's principles for his emergency currency.

A bit more on the story :-


Who was Silvio Gesell :-


And his book "The Natural Order" :-


Although it wasn't encouraged or deemed necessary, there still seems to have been some provision for savings.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will not believe this.

The strongest currency on Planet Plunder is...


[The] Kuwaity Dinar

(rates found on www.xe.com/ucc)

as you can see, the closest thing to one Kuwaity Dinar is the Bahrainy Dinar, and then the British Pound.

If I am mistaken with these numbers please inform me and correct me, thank you.

Sir, I shall correct you. A close money marketeer source of mine has advised me, get this for crazymacronomics:

the Iraqi Dinar


the Laos Kip: number two (16% compound interest on US dollarized savings accounts).

What is money?

What indeed.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Howard S. Katz - November 3, 2008

Yesterday upon the stair.
I met a “recession” that wasn’t there.
It wasn’t there again today.
Oh how I wish it would go away.

A group of interested parties have been asking how I can be so
confident that the country is headed for a massive rise in prices
when all about the media have lost their heads and are predicting
a contraction?.

Doesn’t it disturb me that Paul Volcker predicted a “full-scale recession”
in the Wall Street Journal on 10-10-08? And what about Al Abelson’s
claim, “Chicken Little was right” (Barron’s 10-6-08 )? Indeed, to throw fuel
on the fire the Wall Street Journal recently added its editorial opinion,
“”we’re heading into a recession” (10-30-08 ), and 3rd quarter real GDP
was slightly down.

You want me to tell it like it is? Well around a half century ago
a group of New York bankers set out to corrupt the teaching of economics
in America. F.D.R. had recently given them the privilege to create
money out of nothing, and this was a privilege which was
potentially very profitable to them. They wanted to use this privilege to
maximum effect, and in order to do this it was necessary to win the
support of the government of the day (for policies to “stimulate the
economy” where the economy was the banks and their associated
vested interests).

So they started to promote the careers of those economists who would
argue that creating money was a socially useful occupation, that it was
the “road to plenty.” Such “economists” had been called crackpots by
most respected members of the profession.. But the bankers used their
money to bribe the leading universities and get these crackpots installed
as professors of economics. The teaching of economics was corrupted
at that time and continues corrupt to this day
. The lunatics are
running the asylum.

These bankers control the “new school economists” by giving them
generous “consulting” fees – but only to those who continually urge the
Federal Reserve to increase the money supply. To do this it is usually
expedient to scream “recession.”

According to their theory strange contractions, whether called
deflations, recessions, depressions or whatever, mysteriously
come over a free market economy without any rhyme or reason,
sort of like a visitation of witches.

Leave aside the teaching of Adam Smith that free market economies
were extremely stable. These people have never read Adam Smith, let
alone addressed his arguments. Besides, they are not talking to a
convention of economists. They are trying to induce the media to scare
the dickens out of the general public.

Now you people have not made a profession of economics. So you are
not expected to be able to address these arguments on your own. That is
my job. But think about it. What if the local university was handing out
phony degrees in auto mechanics and a good portion of the mechanics in
town were crackpots? How would you, who are not a mechanic, tell the
difference between the real mechanics and the crackpots?

The answer is simple. The good mechanic fixes your car. The crackpot
mechanic has excuses. The same is true for economics except for the fact
that the economist does not actually do things; he just makes predictions.
The predictions of the good economist come true. The predictions of the
crackpot economist fall flat. Thus when Jim Dines, Harry Browne, Dan
Rosenthal, myself and a few other real economists predicted, circa 1970,
that the price of gold (then $35/oz.) was going way up, you had a chance
to see that we were right.

When the establishment of that day (represented by, Henry Reuss,
Chairman of the House Banking Committee) said that gold was going to
$6-$8/oz., you had a chance to see that they were wrong.

What a record the establishment (meaning the crackpots trained by the
bankers) has racked up over the past half century. The same year I
entered Harvard (1955), John Kenneth Galbraith flew down to Washington
and testified before a congressional committee that the stock market was
on the verge of a 1929-style crash. No only was there no crash, but the
stock market turned and rose for the next 11 years and has never been
back to its 1955 level since.

Or we can consider 1982 when the darling of the establishment of that
day, Henry Kaufman, was warning of higher interest rates and the
possibility of a world depression. Instead, interest rates fell for 27 years,
and the DJI multiplied by a factor of 18. Then there was Long Term
Capital Management. Two of their principals won (what is called) the
Nobel Prize in Economics in 1997. Then in 1998 they lost $4 billion and
went belly-up.

In early 2000, just as stocks were about to enter the worst bear market
in a quarter century, the New York Times and Wall Street Journal teamed
up to promote the book, Dow 36,000, predicting that the DJI would reach
36,000 by 2002-04. By 2002, the DJI was down from 11,700 to 7,200.
And finally, in 2001 the WSJ was predicting (as today) the horrors of
“deflation,” just as commodity prices started their biggest explosion since
the 1970s.

So the next time you are thinking of taking your economic car to these
crackpots, give some consideration to the above, or you are likely to find
your economic car returned in a lot of little pieces.

Now I mentioned that my job is economics. So let me share with you a
few of the things I have learned:

All of the crackpots talk as though declining prices were the worst thing
imaginable. Is there any evidence for this? Well from 1866 to 1896 the
U.S. had a 30 year period of declining prices. An average item that cost
$1.00 in 1866 wound up costing 30¢ in 1896. It must have been a bad
time, right? Indeed, the ancestors of our present day crackpots report
that the period was full of depressions. One of these “depressions,” 1873-
79, was almost as severe as that of the 1930s. And yet this was the most
rapid period of economic growth, not merely of the United States, but of
any country in the world in recorded history. During this period the real
wages of the average American worker almost doubled. (By comparison,
in the 30-year period 1972-2002 the real wages of the average American
worker fell by 18 %.)

A depression is a period when the whole country gets poorer. Yet if we
study the periods labeled “depressions” by the economic establishment,
we find overwhelming evidence that the great majority of the people were
getting wealthier.

For example, meat consumption per capita rose from 129 lbs/year in
1930 to 144 lbs/year in 1934. If the average person was poorer, how
come he could afford to eat more meat? Similarly, butter consumption
rose from 17.6 lbs/year in 1930 to 18.6 lbs/year in 1934. Margarine
consumption fell from 2.6 lbs/year to 2.1 lbs/year between those same
dates. If people were getting poorer, then why did they shift from
margarine to butter? Also religious and welfare activities rose from 1.5%
(of total personal consumption expenditures) in 1929 to 2% in 1933.
Indeed, Americans gave more to charity in the “depression” than any
time for which figures are available. All of this data is available from a
book of statistics published by the U.S. Commerce Department, Historical
Statistics of the United States, Colonial Times to 1970, available in most
major libraries. The book also gives data on butter consumption from
1869. The highest year for butter consumption in American history was
1896, the year of the Silver Campaign “depression.” In that year, the
average American consumed 22 lbs. of butter, more than he has ever
consumed of butter plus margarine since.

And if you still have any impulse to believe anything the establishment
tells you, then there was no increase in suicides after the 1929 stock
market crash. The suicide rate for both the U.S. and New York State for
November and December 1929 was completely normal. (In short, the
story about Wall Streeters jumping out of windows after the 1929 crash
was a complete lie)

By the above definition, there were 2 depressions in the 20th century.
The first occurred during WWI; the second occurred during WWII. The
WWII depression was very obvious. No new houses were built, and the
same was true for cars. So no one could live in a new house or drive a
new car. Many items (meat, butter, fat, cheese) were rationed. You were
limited to 3 gallons of gas per week. But strangely enough no
establishment economist calls such periods depressions.

The periods mistakenly called “depressions” by the establishment are
actually money/credit contractions. (It is theoretically possible for money
and credit to move in different directions, but it never happens.) There
were only two of these contractions in the U.S. during the 20th century,
1921 and 1929-32. In both of them, there was a substantial contraction of
the money supply. (The Republicans were withdrawing from circulation
the money created during WWI in order to return to “a good 5¢ cigar.”)

As noted, the period 1866-96 was a period of repeated “depressions,” and
each of these corresponded to a shrinking of the money supply (in part
the withdrawal of money created during the Civil War, in part the
demonetization of silver). So if these establishment crackpots are afraid
of a money/credit contraction -- what they incorrectly call a depression --
then their solution is simple. DON’T SHRINK THE MONEY SUPPLY.

The establishment’s favorite indicator, GDP, does not measure the
economy. It measures activity, not wealth. In other words, it measures
waste. It was invented by a Russian immigrant who worked his way into
the New Deal. No one has ever proven that it measures wealth. Indeed,
as a rough rule of thumb I use money growth to predict real GDP. When
money growth is low or when it drops significantly from a high level, then
we get a “recession.” Since money growth was close to 0 for the past 3
years, I expected real GDP to be close to 0, as it has proven to be. But
since the bailout bill of Oct. 3, 2008 both Federal Reserve Credit and the
monetary base have exploded to the upside. So I say to you, Mr. Volcker,
“There ain’t gonna be no recession.” (This phrase, from Pierre Rinfret,
goes back to the early 1970s and reflects a time when the Government
thought that “recessions” had some good qualities and was actively trying
to bring one about.)

Some observers have fallen for the establishment argument that this
money now being created will not go into circulation because people will
decide to hoard it. They will not spend it. This was Keynes’ argument, and
establishment crackpots are periodically sounding the alarm based on
their prognosis that people will not spend the money which the
government is printing up. THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN ECONOMIC

After all, when the government gives someone money, he can only spend
it, save it, or invest it. To invest the money is to give it to someone else,
who faces the same choices. To save the money is to give it to a bank or
debtor, who immediately turns around and spends the money. So
whatever people do with the money, it gets spent. Putting money into a
hole in the ground is not something that anybody does today. (Although in
recent years Americans have pretty much stopped saving due to the
Greenspan-Bernanke negative real interest rates, and this is a much
greater threat to the real U.S. economy than all the “chaos” and “crises”
manufactured by the media.)

So do not be deceived. There is a system in place to lie to you in
order to take your wealth. There are academic economists who lie
to the media. And there are stupid media people who pass these lies
along to you.

Then there is your bowling buddy who believes all the lies and scares you
out of your wits. Since you hear the same lies coming at you from 25
different directions, you have the sense that everybody thinks this. As
soon as that thought pops into your head, that is a danger signal.
Whenever someone is trying to deceive you, as soon as he can get
you to think “everybody believes this,” he is half way home.

Well, it is my job to tell you that all this has happened before: again and
again and again. The media scream “deflation…recession…depression,”
and this is cover for the Fed to print money like there was no tomorrow.
All the predictions prove wrong, but the stupid public keeps forgetting
about the last 24 mistakes and believes. After all, the crackpot
economists have very impressive titles – all bought and paid for by the


Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open.
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