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psikeyhackr



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:23 pm    Post subject: Basic Skyscraper Physics Reply with quote

The WTC towers were destroyed 70 years after the Empire State Building was completed.

Quote:
Design and construction

The Empire State Building was designed by Gregory Johnson and his architectural firm Shreve, Lamb and Harmon, which produced the building drawings in just two weeks, using its earlier designs, for the Reynolds Building in Winston-Salem, North Carolina and the Carew Tower in Cincinnati, Ohio, as a basis. The building was actually designed from the top down

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State_Building

That top down design makes a lot of sense. The building MUST support its own weight through its entire height. So design a few levels, figure out how much they weigh and then you know how strong the next few levels must be, all of the way down the building. After all, what kind of computers did they have in 1929?

The NIST NCSTAR1 report says the south tower was deflected by 12 inches at the 70th floor by the impact of the plane even though that was 130 feet below the impact point. The building then oscillated for FOUR MINUTES. How much of the kinetic energy of the plane went into causing that oscillation? How can that be computed without knowing the distribution of mass, especially steel and concrete. So why don't we have the info on the quantity of STEEL and CONCRETE on every level of the towers after SEVEN YEARS? Why hasn't the so called Truth Movement been after the engineering schools about that information? Why isn't Richard Gage and AE911Truth making a big deal about it?

The kinetic energy of the plane had two effects, it punched a hole in the building doing structural damage, and it caused the building to oscillate. One of the survivors said the floor started moving like a wave. But how can the structural damage even be approximated without separating out the energy that shook the building from what did the damage and how can that be done without distribution of mass? All engineering students should understand something this obvious even if they don't know how to do the calculations.

The distribution of mass is also relevant to computing the conservation of momentum effects in the collapse and the supposed potential energy that people want to claim explains the pulverization of concrete.

All of the engineering schools should have been screaming for this data for years and the Truth Movement should have noticed their silence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kUICwO93Q

This whole thing is a farce without such simple to understand and obviously important information. The designers had to figure this out just to estimate the construction costs before people would even make the decision to finance the construction. Who puts up $300,000,000 for a guess? The NCSTAR1 report does not even tell us the total for the concrete.

So why should we think the top 15 stories of the north tower could come straight down destroying everything below without knowing the TONS of STEEL and TONS of CONCRETE on every level all of the way down. And if we had the data on 110 levels why leave out the 6 basements? We don't even know the tons of steel in the impact zone that the fire supposedly weakened. That quantity would be relevant in analyzing conduction.

psik

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aznyron



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject: 9/11 Reply with quote

were I have my problem is why the cover up why the lies why didn't
the President go under oath why did he need his VP to hold his hand while being questioned why was the steel eye beams pick up & shipped off to China why is it when I see a video shows the plane exploding on impact
and a huge fire ball going up the side of the WTC not inside the building
why was it they did not even find a telephone or a desk or computer every thing was reduced to dust so I understand another mind boggler is how they found a passport in all that destruction which left nothing but a passport was found unharmed it time to stop insulting my intelligence
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psikeyhackr



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:45 pm    Post subject: Collapse Demo Reply with quote

I have uploaded a 1 minute segment of my collapse demo.

Collapse Trial

It is just washers held by chopped down toothpicks stuck in holes drilled at 1 inch intervals. There will be a lot more drops in the completed video. My falling mass is a stack of 20 washers that weighs 3.8 oz. But in order to fall it has to break off the tooth picks. I show in another segment that a toothpick can hold 20 and 40 and 60 washers. I didn't tape it but I explain that the stack of 20 breaks a toothpick 33% of the time when dropped from 1 inch and 100% of the time when dropped from 2 inches. I drop it from 12 inches in all of the videos.

So with no washers on the toothpicks an average of 17.7 are broken in 3 trials. With various masses it stops after breaking from 6 to 8. So the effect of conservation of momentum on the mass combined with the energy required to break the toothpicks brings the mass to a stop every time in less than half that of toothpicks alone.

psik

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psikeyhackr



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: WTC MIToo Momentum Interference Test Reply with quote

Finally!

WTC MIToo Momentum Interference Test

psik

PS - Sorry! I just discovered the link was wrong. It's fixed now.

In case anyone liked the last one. http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewreply/52039/

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Last edited by psikeyhackr on Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Peter



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Rotten to the core? Reply with quote

Now, if only your central core was replaced by vertical toothpicks (very long ones I am afraid...) we would see even more clearly the absurdity of the unaided "gravitational" collapse of the towers.
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psikeyhackr



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just had another idea for a collapse design.

Use dead hard drives for the masses on each level. Cut 1 inch lengths of toilet roll tubes to use as columns between the drives. Some experimentation would have to be done for strength and crushability. The manufacturers just don't specify how many disk drives can be supported by four toilet roll tubes.

I won't be working on it any time soon maybe someone would want to try it.

psik

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psikeyhackr



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The program HARDFIRE has Ryan Mackey, a NASA scientist, on talking about making a collapse model for the WTC.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5129738509892438946

The interesting thing is that he talks about scaling the model but that requires accurate data on the towers. But he has been complaining about me demanding info on the distribution of steel and concrete for months.

So this should be fun.

psik

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psikeyhackr



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2009 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The previous link doesn't work anymore here is a working one.

psikeyhackr wrote:
The program HARDFIRE has Ryan Mackey, a NASA scientist, on talking about making a collapse model for the WTC.

http://www.stockvault.net/videos/video/ZsDn6es7mtk.html

The interesting thing is that he talks about scaling the model but that requires accurate data on the towers. But he has been complaining about me demanding info on the distribution of steel and concrete for months.

So this should be fun.

psik

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psikeyhackr



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a segment of the new collapse video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caATBZEKL4c

No sound track yet.

My new model consists of 33 washers separated and supported by 33 paper loops. I selected 33 because it is a multiple of 11 like the WTC. The top 11 spacers are one loop, the next 17 are two loops and the bottom 5 are triple loops. I drop 4 washers on the rest which is 12%. 14 levels of 110 was 12.7%. I do TWO DROPS from 24 inches above the lower portion and the total height of my structure is only 24 inches. In the first drop 9 single loop paper "columns" are crushed. I then do a second drop having put new paper spacers in the falling portion. Even after TWO DROPS more than 50% of my structure is still standing. This business of airliners completely destroying the towers in less than two hours dragging on for EIGHT YEARS is way beyond ridiculous.

psik

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Hombre



Joined: 07 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many things that you're leaving out, I've no time to say much about them now but hope to soon.

The weight of the above floors wasn't sufficient to level the remainder of either building in the manner that was seen on the videos. Especially Tower one. Common sense says that 10% of mass would be eaten alive by the 90% below, only that's not what you saw happen. There has to be a catalyst of some sort that removed any and all resistance below the impact level as collapse was initiated. That's high school shit 101.

Question: Fire being the culprit > how was it able to weaken the necessary amount of steel far enough below the impact zones to allow for a complete and total structural collapse? Question: At what point would the collapse have been arrested and the debris from above forced to topple over instead of crushing the remainder of the building?

And to think 8 years on and there are still millions of people gleefully ignorant of the actual size and mass of those structures. Huge just doesn't do them justice.

Hombre'
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psikeyhackr



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The weight of the above floors wasn't sufficient to level the remainder of either building in the manner that was seen on the videos. Especially Tower one. Common sense says that 10% of mass would be eaten alive by the 90% below, only that's not what you saw happen. There has to be a catalyst of some sort that removed any and all resistance below the impact level as collapse was initiated. That's high school shit 101.


That is the problem with coming up with a way to make an even vaguely realistic PHYSICAL MODEL.

The supports must be CRUSHABLE or it is not realistic at all. But they must also be strong enough to support the weight but there must be enough weight to demonstrate the inertial effects.

Ryan Mackey talked about a model here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsDn6es7mtk

But Mackey's falling mass is a SOLID BLOCK. It cannot be crushed and absorb some of its own kinetic energy therefore it is TOTALLY UNREALISTIC.

psik

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Hombre



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. I agree 100%.

I hate to admit it but I watched a re-play--for the second time, of the History Channel's bullshit 2 hour program on 9-11, complete with Jones, Gage, Loose Change IDIOT, and what's his face, the guy who writes books. 8 and counting in regard to 9-11.

I simply could not sit through it this time. BYU Jones is by far the most pathetic excuse for a Truther that I've ever seen, far worse that Alex Jones himself. How a normal well adjusted human being can't see through their bullshit is beyond my scope.

I keep waiting for someone to step up and challenge these fools, but so far nobody has had the balls to do so. The dog and pony act is so fucking old that someone sincere in there efforts most certainly will one day say enough and punch one of these pricks in the head. One can only hope I suppose.

The whole thing is absolutely one pathetic cluster fuck!

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psikeyhackr



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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have kludged together a Python program that does a magical unsupported gravitational collapse. It is functionally the same as Fall of Physics but implemented via a different algorithm. The program loops computing the positions and velocities of the masses every 1/100th of a second.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/fo...1656#msg251656

The differences came out less than 2%
Code:

Code:
#   Fall of Physics
#
#   Case #1  2.5,  2.5,   2.5,    2.5  2.554 sec @ 43.82 ft/sec
#             0   16     23.85   29.93   
#   Program   0   15.84  23.79   29.6  2.57  sec @ 43.36 ft/sec
#
#   Case #2   1,   2,    3,      4     2.854 sec @ 38.66 ft/sec
#             0   10.67  16.87   21.70
#   Program   0   10.56  16.8    21.6  2.87  sec @ 38.24 ft/sec
#
#   Case #3   4,   3,    2,      1     2.381 sec @ 50.37 ft/sec
#             0   18.29  29.05   38.91
#   Program   0   18.10  28.52   38.3  2.41  sec @ 49.856 ft/sec
#


So here is the program:

Code:
#
#
# This program simulates a magical collapse of a skyscraper.
#
# It is magical in that the mass at each level is supported
#   by nothing!  Each mass is simply suspended in space
#   until struck from above.  At which point the conservation
#   of momentum determines the velocity of the combined
#   masses.
#
#   Up to line #69 with the f.close() the data for the
#   collapse is read from the argv[1] file.  It can have
#   any name since it is a command line argument.  This
#   program is started with:
#
#             python 911claps.py 911clpdt.csv
#
#   The data file has comma separated values with 5
#   parameters per line.  The first is the USE Flag which
#   tells the gravity function whether or not to ignore the
#   entire line.  If the mass has been absorbed in a
#   collision the USE Flag will be ZERO.  The next value is
#   the MOTION Flag.  This tells the gravity function
#   whether of not the mass is in motion.  If it is ONE then
#   the mass is accelerated for 0.01 second and velocity
#   and altitude are changed.  The 3rd value is Mass, the
#   4th is Velocity and the 5th is Altitude.
#
#   If the USE Flag is ONE and the MOTION Flag is ZERO then
#   the gravity function only reads and saves the altitude
#   for comparison to test for collisions.  This program
#   scans from the bottom up so the last altitude can be
#   compared to the new computed altitude of a Mass in
#   MOTION to do the collision test.
#
#   NOTE: There is a peculiarty in the program, most likely
#   because I haven't figured out something about Python.  The #   very first data line for the level at 12 feet is in the
#   program not the data file.  I was getting various errors
#   and just kludged it to get it done rather than spend more
#   time on Python syntax and error messages.
#

# Creates array of collapse data by reading file
# seems to work OK, 2010-05-07 12:14:20
import csv
import sys

# Haven't figured out the proper way to read in data so
# first data line for bottom of building is in program not the
# data file.

toweray = []
toweray.append(["1","0","2080.0","0.0","12.0"])

f = open(sys.argv[1], 'rt')
# create global variables
Time = 0.0
falling = 1
lastuslvl = 0
lastalt = 0.0
newalt = 0.0
velo = 0.0
dist = 0.0
# read data to fill array
reader = csv.reader(f)
rownum = 1
for row in reader:
    toweray.append([row[0],row[1],row[2],row[3],row[4]])
    rownum += 1
f.close()
print "\n\nTower Array is Loaded with",rownum,"Levels.\n\n"

inloop = 0
while inloop < 109:
    toweray[inloop][0]=int(toweray[inloop][0])
    toweray[inloop][1]=int(toweray[inloop][1])
    toweray[inloop][2]=float(toweray[inloop][2])
    toweray[inloop][3]=float(toweray[inloop][3])
    toweray[inloop][4]=float(toweray[inloop][4])
    inloop += 1
inloop = 0


def collide(curntlvl):
    global Time
    global falling
    global lastalt
    global lastuslvl
    global newalt
    print "Collision at",(newalt + lastalt)/2,"feet!!!"
    print "Mass @:",toweray[curntlvl][4],"ft. hit Mass @:",toweray[lastuslvl][4],"ft.",
    print "at:",Time,"sec."
    print toweray[curntlvl][2],"tons traveling:",
    print toweray[curntlvl][3],"ft/sec hit",
    print toweray[lastuslvl][2],"tons moving at:",
    print toweray[lastuslvl][3],"ft/sec\n\n"
# Assimilate impacted Mass and turn off USE Flag
    newmass = toweray[curntlvl][2] + toweray[lastuslvl][2]
    toweray[lastuslvl][0] = 0
# Apply Conservation of Momentum to compute new velocity
    newvel = (toweray[curntlvl][2] * toweray[curntlvl][3] + toweray[lastuslvl][2] * toweray[lastuslvl][3])/newmass
    print "New mass is:",newmass,"tons moving:",newvel,
    print "ft/sec\n\n"
    toweray[curntlvl][2] = newmass
    toweray[curntlvl][3] = newvel
    lastalt = (newalt + lastalt)/2
    toweray[curntlvl][4] = lastalt
    lastuslvl = curntlvl
    return

def gravity(curntlvl):
    global Time
    global falling
    global lastalt
    global lastuslvl
    global newalt
#    print "CL=",curntlvl,
    if int(toweray[curntlvl][0]) == 0: # If Use Flag Off return
        toweray[curntlvl][4] = lastalt
        return
    elif int(toweray[curntlvl][1]) == 0: #If Motion Off get alt
        lastalt = toweray[curntlvl][4]
        lastuslvl = curntlvl
        falling = 1
        return
    else:
        falling = 1
        dist = 0.0016 + toweray[curntlvl][3] * 0.01
        velo = 32 * 0.01 + toweray[curntlvl][3]
        newalt = toweray[curntlvl][4] - dist
        if newalt <= 0:
            print "Mass: #",curntlvl,"hit the ground.",
            print toweray[curntlvl][2],"tons at:",
            print toweray[curntlvl][3],"ft/sec"
            toweray[curntlvl][0] = 0
            lastuslvl = curntlvl
            return
        elif newalt <lastalt> 0:
    falling = 0
    lastalt = 0
    inloop = 0
    Time += 0.01   
    if Time > 30:  # End prog after 30 sec simulat
        break
    print "At the tone the Time will be:", Time,"\n"
    while inloop < 109:
        gravity(inloop)
        inloop += 1


Here is a data file with 10 ton increments all of the way down.

Code:
1,0,2070.0,0.0,24.0
1,0,2060.0,0.0,36.0
1,0,2050.0,0.0,48.0
1,0,2040.0,0.0,60.0
1,0,2030.0,0.0,72.0
1,0,2020.0,0.0,84.0
1,0,2010.0,0.0,96.0
1,0,2000.0,0.0,108.0
1,0,1990.0,0.0,120.0
1,0,1980.0,0.0,132.0
1,0,1970.0,0.0,144.0
1,0,1960.0,0.0,156.0
1,0,1950.0,0.0,168.0
1,0,1940.0,0.0,180.0
1,0,1930.0,0.0,192.0
1,0,1920.0,0.0,204.0
1,0,1910.0,0.0,216.0
1,0,1900.0,0.0,228.0
1,0,1890.0,0.0,240.0
1,0,1880.0,0.0,252.0
1,0,1870.0,0.0,264.0
1,0,1860.0,0.0,276.0
1,0,1850.0,0.0,288.0
1,0,1840.0,0.0,300.0
1,0,1830.0,0.0,312.0
1,0,1820.0,0.0,324.0
1,0,1810.0,0.0,336.0
1,0,1800.0,0.0,348.0
1,0,1790.0,0.0,360.0
1,0,1780.0,0.0,372.0
1,0,1770.0,0.0,384.0
1,0,1760.0,0.0,396.0
1,0,1750.0,0.0,408.0
1,0,1740.0,0.0,420.0
1,0,1730.0,0.0,432.0
1,0,1720.0,0.0,444.0
1,0,1710.0,0.0,456.0
1,0,1700.0,0.0,468.0
1,0,1690.0,0.0,480.0
1,0,1680.0,0.0,492.0
1,0,1670.0,0.0,504.0
1,0,1660.0,0.0,516.0
1,0,1650.0,0.0,528.0
1,0,1640.0,0.0,540.0
1,0,1630.0,0.0,552.0
1,0,1620.0,0.0,564.0
1,0,1610.0,0.0,576.0
1,0,1600.0,0.0,588.0
1,0,1590.0,0.0,600.0
1,0,1580.0,0.0,612.0
1,0,1570.0,0.0,624.0
1,0,1560.0,0.0,636.0
1,0,1550.0,0.0,648.0
1,0,1540.0,0.0,660.0
1,0,1530.0,0.0,672.0
1,0,1520.0,0.0,684.0
1,0,1510.0,0.0,696.0
1,0,1500.0,0.0,708.0
1,0,1490.0,0.0,720.0
1,0,1480.0,0.0,732.0
1,0,1470.0,0.0,744.0
1,0,1460.0,0.0,756.0
1,0,1450.0,0.0,768.0
1,0,1440.0,0.0,780.0
1,0,1430.0,0.0,792.0
1,0,1420.0,0.0,804.0
1,0,1410.0,0.0,816.0
1,0,1400.0,0.0,828.0
1,0,1390.0,0.0,840.0
1,0,1380.0,0.0,852.0
1,0,1370.0,0.0,864.0
1,0,1360.0,0.0,876.0
1,0,1350.0,0.0,888.0
1,0,1340.0,0.0,900.0
1,0,1330.0,0.0,912.0
1,0,1320.0,0.0,924.0
1,0,1310.0,0.0,936.0
1,0,1300.0,0.0,948.0
1,0,1290.0,0.0,960.0
1,0,1280.0,0.0,972.0
1,0,1270.0,0.0,984.0
1,0,1260.0,0.0,996.0
1,0,1250.0,0.0,1008.0
1,0,1240.0,0.0,1020.0
1,0,1230.0,0.0,1032.0
1,0,1220.0,0.0,1044.0
1,0,1210.0,0.0,1056.0
1,0,1200.0,0.0,1068.0
1,0,1190.0,0.0,1080.0
1,0,1180.0,0.0,1092.0
1,0,1170.0,0.0,1104.0
1,0,1160.0,0.0,1116.0
1,0,1150.0,0.0,1128.0
1,0,1140.0,0.0,1140.0
1,1,1130.0,0.0,1152.0
1,1,1120.0,0.0,1164.0
1,1,1110.0,0.0,1176.0
1,1,1100.0,0.0,1188.0
1,1,1090.0,0.0,1200.0
1,1,1080.0,0.0,1212.0
1,1,1070.0,0.0,1224.0
1,1,1060.0,0.0,1236.0
1,1,1050.0,0.0,1248.0
1,1,1040.0,0.0,1260.0
1,1,1030.0,0.0,1272.0
1,1,1020.0,0.0,1284.0
1,1,1010.0,0.0,1296.0
1,1,1000.0,0.0,1308.0


This magical collapse only comes down in nearly the time of the real buildings because there is no support. Obviously in a REAL BUILDING the support has to be strong enough to hold all of the weight and the support itself has weight.

So we are being blathered to death to see that the obvious is never resolved. I have spreadsheet data from Urich and femr2 and they differ significantly so I will have to try them against my program.

But what calculation method can be used to simulate the structural resistance that doesn't just provide more junk to argue about?

This is discussed on another more technical website:

http://the911forum.freeforums.org/post10572.html#p10572

psik [3625]

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Last edited by psikeyhackr on Mon May 28, 2012 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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psikeyhackr



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally, collapse with sound and introduction by Ryan Mackey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT4BXIpdIdo

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psik

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psikeyhackr



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 68

PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:49 am    Post subject: The 9/11 Decade Reply with quote

http://psikeyhackr.livejournal.com/1276.html

http://psikeyhackr.livejournal.com/1500.html

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psik

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