FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in 
Ocean acidificaton levels at Jan/01/2100 predicted levels

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Next Level Forum Index -> Tomorrow's World
  ::  Previous topic :: Next topic  
Author Message
Southpark Fan



Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Posts: 1472
Location: The Caribbean of Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:31 am    Post subject: Ocean acidificaton levels at Jan/01/2100 predicted levels Reply with quote

None of the other posts on here matter if you cannot drink the water.

'Ocean acidification research is a relatively new study topic as scientists have only appreciated the potential extent of acidification within the last decade. As greenhouse gas emissions have accelerated in the past century, the oceans have taken up about a third of the carbon dioxide produced by human activities. That excess beyond natural levels increases amounts of carbonic acid in seawater. Acidification also limits the amount of carbonate forms that are needed by marine invertebrates such as coral and shelled organisms to form their skeletons.'
Link: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111222103116.htm


_________________
"Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend." - Bruce Lee
"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." - Buddha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 2459
Location: The Canadian shield

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject: pHool's errand Reply with quote

Ocean pH (the amount of H+ ions in solution) sits around 8.2 (slightly alkaline) and varies between 7.6 and 8.4 depending on rain (normally rainwater is slightly below pH 6) and temperature factors.

CO2 can contribute about .01 units of pH up to about 1000 ppm in the atmosphere. Distant past levels of 6000 ppm still allowed for the develoment and evolution of shelled sea-creatures...

Just another scare-tactic of the warmists.

Reefs located near undersea outgassing of CO2 (pH in the 5s) actually show an increase in carbon deposition by shelled creatures.

_________________
The grand design, reflected in the face of Chaos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Southpark Fan



Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Posts: 1472
Location: The Caribbean of Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A change of 0.X units might not sound as a very big change, but the pH scale is logaritmic meaning that such a change is equivalent to a three fold increase in H+ concentration.

Letter abstract

Nature Geoscience 3, 196 - 200 (2010)
Published online: 14 February 2010 | doi:10.1038/ngeo755

Subject Categories: Biogeochemistry | Climate science | Palaeoclimate and palaeoceanography

Past constraints on the vulnerability of marine calcifiers to massive carbon dioxide release.

Andy Ridgwell1 & Daniela N. Schmidt2


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Acidic oceans threaten fish
Published online: 11 December 2011

Stocks could suffer as seas soak up more carbon dioxide.

Hannah Hoag

_________________
"Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend." - Bruce Lee
"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." - Buddha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 2459
Location: The Canadian shield

PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Acid test Reply with quote

From the friendly folk at WUWT:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/28/the-fishes-and-the-coral-live-happily-in-the-co2-bubble-plume/

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/27/the-ocean-is-not-getting-acidified/

Computer models and their selective use as well as "experiments" involving the addition of Hydrochloric acid to sea water to "test" its effects are not the "real world" while the above are.

_________________
The grand design, reflected in the face of Chaos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
EddieT



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 477

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: pHool's errand Reply with quote

Peter wrote:

Just another scare-tactic of the warmists.


Yup. They have no shame.

_________________
"Man is the only creature who refuses to be what he is"- Albert Camus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 2459
Location: The Canadian shield

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: pHool's errand Reply with quote

EddieT wrote:
Peter wrote:

Just another scare-tactic of the warmists.


Yup. They have no shame.


And it is all they ever had, if you read the climategate emails. As for shame, we should be ashamed of letting them co-opt our caring for the planet with their appeal to our better natures.

btw, Eddie, nice to see you back in here Smile

_________________
The grand design, reflected in the face of Chaos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
EddieT



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 477

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: pHool's errand Reply with quote

Peter wrote:
btw, Eddie, nice to see you back in here Smile


Thanks, Peter.

Here's an interesting tidbit I found while doing some research for my dissertation. From "Weather Station History and Introduced Variability in Climate Data:"

Quote:
The US Army Surgeon General developed the first national climate network in 1814 (Lawson, 1855) and used the surgeons at Army Posts as their observers (Smart, 1894). The reasons for developing such a network were clearly stated in Surgeon General Lovell's report in 1826. The report stated that the network was formed to determine whether a change in the climate had occurred, and if so, how far it depended upon cultivation of the soil and the density of population. Surgeon General Lawson wrote in 1851 that the network had assisted in determining the influences that the progress of civilization had wrought on climate, temperature, and atmospheric phenomena.


The notion that the activities of civilization alter the climate has been around since at least the 19th century, and very likely in some form before that. It has been used to both benefit the march of empire (rain follows the plow) and, somewhat paradoxically, as a tool for conservation and enhanced control after the dust has settled, when the imperialists and settlers are feeling a little guilty about cutting down all the trees and killing off the natives, but nonetheless are seeking to impose what they believe to be their superior "system."

The bottom line is that the narrative of anthropogenic climate change has been used by powerful progressive elements of Western governments for generations as an intellectual bully-stick to justify "progress." These are the same science-worshippers who have brought us a number of our current barbaric and puritanical practices (think vaccines, circumcision, aids, horrific cancer treatments, cholesterol-will-kill-you, etc., etc.). Their front as the kinder and gentler element of our wretched political system is just that.

_________________
"Man is the only creature who refuses to be what he is"- Albert Camus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 2459
Location: The Canadian shield

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: all in all, just another brick out of their wall Reply with quote

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0028983

from the peer-reviewed literature

These observations reveal a continuum of month-long pH variability with standard deviations from 0.004 to 0.277 and ranges spanning 0.024 to 1.430 pH units. The nature of the observed variability was also highly site-dependent, with characteristic diel, semi-diurnal, and stochastic patterns of varying amplitudes. These biome-specific pH signatures disclose current levels of exposure to both high and low dissolved CO2, often demonstrating that resident organisms are already experiencing pH regimes that are not predicted until 2100.

_________________
The grand design, reflected in the face of Chaos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Southpark Fan



Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Posts: 1472
Location: The Caribbean of Canada

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ocean acidity is dissolving shells of tiny snails off U.S. West Coast
April 30, 2014 | Science Daily


Quote:
NOAA-led research team has found the first evidence that acidity of continental shelf waters off the West Coast is dissolving the shells of tiny free-swimming marine snails, called pteropods, which provide food for pink salmon, mackerel and herring, according to a new paper published in Proceedings of the Royal Society B.

Researchers estimate that the percentage of pteropods in this region with dissolving shells due to ocean acidification has doubled in the nearshore habitat since the pre-industrial era and is on track to triple by 2050 when coastal waters become 70 percent more corrosive than in the pre-industrial era due to human-caused ocean acidification.

The new research documents the movement of corrosive waters onto the continental shelf from April to September during the upwelling season, when winds bring water rich in carbon dioxide up from depths of about 400-600 feet to the surface and onto the continental shelf.

"Our findings are the first evidence that a large fraction of the West Coast pteropod population is being affected by ocean acidification," said Nina Bednarsek, Ph.D., of NOAA's Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory in Seattle, the lead author of the paper. "Dissolving coastal pteropod shells point to the need to study how acidification may be affecting the larger marine ecosystem. These nearshore waters provide essential habitat to a great diversity of marine species, including many economically important fish that support coastal economies and provide us with food."

The term "ocean acidification" describes the process of ocean water becoming corrosive as a result of absorbing nearly a third of the carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere from human sources. This change in ocean chemistry is affecting marine life, particularly organisms with calcium carbonate skeletons or shells, such as corals, oysters, mussels, and small creatures in the early stages of the food chain such as pteropods. The pteropod is a free-swimming snail found in oceans around the world that grows to a size of about one-eighth to one-half inch.

The research team, which also included scientists from NOAA's Northwest Fisheries Science Center and Oregon State University, found that the highest percentage of sampled pteropods with dissolving shells were along a stretch of the continental shelf from northern Washington to central California, where 53 percent of pteropods sampled using a fine mesh net had severely dissolved shells. The ocean's absorption of human-caused carbon dioxide emissions is also increasing the level of corrosive waters near the ocean's surface where pteropods live.



Story Source:
The above story is based on materials provided by National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:
1.N. Bednar ek, R. A. Feely, J. C. P. Reum, B. Peterson, J. Menkel, S. R. Alin, B. Hales. Limacina helicina shell dissolution as an indicator of declining habitat suitability owing to ocean acidification in the California Current Ecosystem. Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, 2014; 281 (1785): 20140123 DOI: 10.1098/rspb.2014.0123

_________________
"Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend." - Bruce Lee
"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." - Buddha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Peter



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 2459
Location: The Canadian shield

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 7:07 am    Post subject: Shell-game Reply with quote

Argh! Despite knowing that ocean pH fluctuates greatly and widely due to many factors, including natural sources and diurnal cycles, the ocean is neither being acidified nor is it corrosive per se. The alkalinity (pH above a neutral 7, so by definition, NOT acidic) at a lower level will obviously affect certain shell types BUT these and all other shell-bearing sea creatures have gone through much worse and survived. Recent studies confirm this and only the alarmist rhetoric mentioned in the press blurb tries to elicit a guilt reaction.
Often, the body of these studies show the entire story and the "punch-line" has been dreamed up to generate interest... as per

The new research documents the movement of corrosive waters onto the continental shelf from April to September during the upwelling season, when winds bring water rich in carbon dioxide up from depths of about 400-600 feet to the surface and onto the continental shelf.

Now, cold water can hold more CO2 than warmer surface water so the ocean current is being caused by man????? Puhleeze!

_________________
The grand design, reflected in the face of Chaos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2014 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter, you dolphin type, sir.

It's been a while. I hope you are well.

Did it ever occur to you that the plankton you usually eat is gone?

http://www.biogeosciences.net/10/5729/2013/bg-10-5729-2013.pdf

Bad eh?

Yeah.

A dolphin may have reading issues with the above, but it's nothing compared to plume coming to south CA.

Regards to your whale friends (and the anchovies).

I'd move to another ocean if I were you.

Regards

atm Sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meanwhile:

http://www.rense.com/general96/lakeerie.html

http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Shimatsu_080414.mp3

Regards

atm Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Next Level Forum Index -> Tomorrow's World All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

Theme xand created by spleen.