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Do Androids Dream of a New World Order?
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hawkwind



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 730

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Do Androids Dream of a New World Order? Reply with quote

Although I enjoy talking about a need for “new strategies” when dealing with the G8/Globalist agendas, I’m not sure there are any new strategies left to talk about. For analogy, I will use the meanderings of my favorite Sci-fi writer Philip K. Dick. I’m sure there are hundreds of other thinkers/writers who have the same ideas. Before writing the short story “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep”, which ultimately became the movie “Blade Runner”, Philip was reading journals from Nazi SS soldiers stationed at “death camps” during WWII. He began focusing on one entry penned by a soldier who wrote, “I have trouble sleeping at night through the sounds of screaming children”. To Philip K. Dick, this was profound and shocking. This soldier must have been some kind of “synthetic” human being … totally disengaged from humanity and incapable of making sympathetic/empathetic connections with the reality around him, just another BLOG entry, so to speak. Is it possible for this “synthetic” human to evolve empathy or compassion?

I will return to “Blade Runner” in a moment but I want to try to describe the world(s) as envisioned by Philip K. Dick. Throughout his life, he was haunted by voices/images from the future. Some say that it was a psychosis, caused by his amphetamine usage in the 60’s that fueled the huge volume of work he created to earn a meager living. Others are convinced he was in fact “in contact” with our possible futures, asynchronously witnessing them. Either way, Philip K. Dick seemed to have one foot in the past and one in the future, the present always remained full of endless potential. Regardless of how antiquated his images of our future technological landscapes might be … one of his repeating images remains unchallenged; it is his vision of a battle over our future “mindscapes”. The present day, so-called “NWO” is very aware of this kind of “future think”. The last, next and subsequent fabricated wars has/will never be fought on the ground of some distant land or planet, but in the perception/nightmares of our manipulated global “mindscape”. Philip K. Dick’s imagination was vast, maybe as vast as the future itself. He envisioned how we might interact with each other, how we can’t trust our inner dialog anymore and ultimately how collective society would always intrude on our private interactions. In all his vast imagination and writings, he was unable to find one single future that lead to a world he was willing to inhabit. Think about it … he never found one future landscape/mindscape that is acceptable for humanity! But even in those bleak visions, he saw the possibility of individual contentment in the fluidity of the present. That’s a very unique concept … he found it essential to live outside the global/controlled landscape/mindscape paradigms. The geographical and resource wars are a farce, with a large dose of real death and horror. We know that; the war of the mind is all that matters to the folks in power, so “now” might be a good time to take our minds back!

I want to bring the analogy back to “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep” and “Blade Runner”. In Ridley Scotts’ movie version, “Deckard”, the blade runner, is portrayed as a hired “replicant” assassination proxy … tasked to blindly implement the will of the unquestionable “NWO”. This conclusion is supported by a dream of a unicorn in the beginning of the film and a (spoiler alert!) pewter unicorn found at the end. Deckard becomes aware by the end of the film that he “is” one of the replicants he was tasked to eliminate. The Philip K. Dick ending to “Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep” is much more enigmatic and ultimately more “real”, because I think this is where we are today ... hired assassins, waiting to be assassinated. At this “fluid” point in time, where every thought and action is suspect to examination and manipulation by the new landlords of the global “mindscape”, we need self awareness more than ever! IMHO, this thinking is not a byproduct of paranoia, but a well documented construct of the elite who envisioned a future created and implemented with the help of the spineless MSM. On that thought, let’s conclude with, “fuck the future mindscape”; it’s not theirs or ours for that matter to control in the first place. What matters is that you’re having a positive impact on your “now” and if each subsequent “now” produces the same positive result … how can “they” ever win?

- Hawk

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Last edited by hawkwind on Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:31 pm; edited 3 times in total
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RedMahna



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hawk said:
On that thought, let’s conclude with, “fuck the future mindscape”; it’s not theirs or ours for that matter to control in the first place. What matters is that you’re having a positive impact on your “now” and if each subsequent “now” produces the same positive result … how can “they” ever win?

this is logical, true and part of the 12-step philosophy i had been involved with. good stuff like this seems to enjoy a common concept, regardless of source. thanks for sharing... (oh, christ, did i just say that?)

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:40 pm    Post subject: and then Chaos out of Order. Reply with quote

Ok there's a LOT in that post Wink, so I'll just pick up a few threads now.

As Red Mahna spotted the potential of the "now" is one key issue. As
individuals, we each interact with the reality structure moment by
moment. So no matter what the NWO is doing --each of us is free to
tweak our individual "now."

Knowing we can -is the first requirement. And if our minds are freed of
NWO-inserted propaganda memes, that will liberate the most potential
from our "now." That's where this forum comes in. It deconstructs the
fake political and social reality enough for mental freedom to exercise
truly free will.

But the fakery extends way beyond the base political social level. It is
enmeshed in our worldview in a thousand misconceptions and mistruths.
That idea is addressed in The Matrix. And uncovering these deeper levels
is the purpose of TreeIncarnation.

Certainty is collapsing like an intellectual Berlin Wall. The rush to the fake
certainties of fundamentalism is but the frantic clutching at a disapearing
structure. Too late.

Yes, no matter what the NWO is doing --each of us is free to tweak our
individual "now."


DEFEATING THE NWO

The issue of strategies for defeating the NWO is an interestng one too.
Some of these themes are a mindfuck in themselves. (See Alex Jones)

If they can convince you that you are the powerless resistance to the
behemoth of the NWO then you are screwed. Powerless resistance
movements lose. All the time. They get rolled over.

If, however, you can realise that you are the New World Disorder.....

...then that's a whole different ballgame.

In fact, the secret...... IS a whole different ballgame. The NWO is not
going to be defeated politically in the current paradigm. Because the
current paradigm IS the NWO. And vice versa.

That's why those rabid anti-Bush themes are deliberately stroked in the
"mainstream" alternative media and on the CIA Fake sites. Same ol',
same ol'. The political merry-go-round.

Nuance is the new paradigm. Tearing down interdisciplinary walls,
is the new paradigm. Blending is the new paradigm. Surfing atop
the certainty structures built by the NWO is the new crest of human
exploration.


Androids do dream electric. But in their dreams the sheep seem real.
And in their dreams their predictable certainties give way to the chaotic
whisperings of novel thoughts. Revolutionary thoughts.

Order out of Chaos and then Chaos out of Order.

In the old spoof TV series, "Get Smart," Smart and 99 worked for
CONTROL, Laughing The "bad guys" were called "KAOS". (Chaos) Laughing

That's us. The New World Disorder.

Remember. Anarchy only feels like anarchy if you are a control freak.

And it works. Look around. Got us here.

Intelligence rules. OK? Get Smart.
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Hocus Locus



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 850
Location: Lost in anamnesis, cannot forget my way out

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hawkwind: Philip K. Dick. Throughout his life, he was haunted by voices/images from the future.

And the past... which we know as the future to the distant past.

<<<QUOTE<<<

L: I'm going to tell you about a dream I once had. I know that when someone says that, then usually you're in for a very boring next few minutes, and you might be, but it sounds like what else are you going to do, right? Anyway, I read this essay by Philip K. Dick.

W: What? You read it in your dream.

L: No. I read it before the dream. It was the preamble to the dream. It was about that book, "Flow My Tears the Policeman Said." You know that one?

W: Uh, yeah yeah, he won an award for that one.

L: Right, that's the one he wrote really fast. It just like flowed right out of him. He felt he was sort of channeling it or something. But anyway, about four years after it was published, he was at this party, and he met this woman who had the same name as the woman character in the book, and she had a boyfriend with the same name as the boyfriend character in the book, and she was having an affair with this guy, the chief of police, and he had the same name as the chief of police in his book. So she was telling him all of this stuff from her life, and everything she is saying is right out of his book. So it's totally freaking him out, but what could he do?

And then shortly after that, he was going to mail a letter, and he saw this kind of dangerous, shady looking guy standing by his car, but instead of avoiding him, which he says he would have usually done, he walked right up to him and said, "Can I help you?" And the guy said, "Yeah, I ran out of gas." So he pulls out his wallet, and he hands him some money, which he says he never would have done, and then he gets home and thinks, wait a second, this guy can't get to a gas station, he's out of gas. So he gets back in his car and goes and finds the guy, takes him to the gas station, and as he's pulling up at the gas station, he realizes, hey, this is in my book too. This exact station, this exact guy, everything.

So this whole episode is kind of creepy, right? And he's telling his priest about it, you know, describing how he wrote this book, and then four years later all these things happened to him. And as he's telling this to him, the priest says, "That's the Book of Acts. You're describing the Book of Acts." And he's like, "I've never read the Book of Acts." So he goes home and reads the Book of Acts, and it's like uncanny. Even the characters' names are the same as in the Bible. And the Book of Acts takes place in 50 A.D., when it was written, supposedly. So Philip K. Dick had this theory that time was an illusion and that we are all actually in 50 A.D., and the reason he had written this book was that he had somehow momentarily punctured through this illusion, this veil of time, and what he had seen there was what was going on in the Book of Acts.

And he was really into gnosticism, and this idea that this demiurge or demon had created this illusion of time to make us forget that Christ was about to return, and the kingdom of God was about to arrive. And that we're all in 50 A.D., and there's someone trying to make us forget that God is imminent. And that's what time is. That's what all of history is. It's just this continuous daydream, or distraction.

And so I read that, and I was like, that's weird. And that night I had a dream. And there was this guy in the dream who was supposed to be a psychic. But I was skeptical. I was like, he's not really a psychic, you know I'm thinking to myself. And then suddenly I start floating, like levitating up to the ceiling. And as I almost go through the roof, I'm like, okay, Mr. Psychic. I believe you. You're a psychic. Now put me down please. And I float down, and as my feet touch the ground, the psychic turns into this woman in a green dress. And this woman is Lady Gregory.

Now Lady Gregory was Yeats' patron, this Irish person, and though I'd never seen her image, I was just sure that this was the face of Lady Gregory. So I'm walking along, and Lady Gregory turns to me and says, "Let me explain to you the nature of the universe. Philip K. Dick is right about time, but he's wrong that it's 50 A.D. Actually, there's only one instant, and it's right now, and it's eternity. And it's an instant in which God is posing a question, and that question is basically, 'Do you want to be one with eternity? Do you want to be in heaven?' And we're all saying, 'No thank you. Not just yet.' And so time actually is just this constant saying No to God's invitation. That's what time is, and it's no more 50 A.D. than it's 2001. There's just this one instant, and that's what we're always in." Then she tells me that actually, this is the narrative of everyone's life. That behind the phenomenal differences, there is but one story, and that's the story of moving from No to Yes. All of life is like, "No thank you, no thank you, no thank you," then ultimately it's, "Yes, I give in, yes, I accept, yes, I embrace." That's the journey. Everyone gets to Yes in the end, right?

W: Right.

L: So we continue walking, and my dog runs over to me. And I'm petting him, really happy to see him, because he's been dead for years. So I'm petting him, and I realize there's this gross oozing stuff coming out of his stomach. And I look over at Lady Gregory, and she sort of coughs, like cough, cough, and there's vomit dribbling down her chin, and it smells really bad. And I think, wait a second, that's not just the smell of vomit, which doesn't smell very good, that's the smell of dead person vomit. So it's like doubly foul. Then I realize I'm actually in the land of the dead, and everyone around me is dead. My dog had been dead for over ten years, Lady Gregory had been dead a lot longer than that. When I finally woke up, I was like, whoa, that wasn't a dream, that was a visitation to this real place, the land of the dead.

W: So what happened, and how did you finally get out of it?

L: Oh man. It was like one of those like life altering experiences. I could never really look at the world the same way again after that.

W: How did you finally get out of the dream? See, that's my problem. I'm trapped. I keep thinking that I'm waking up, but I'm still in a dream. It seems like it's going on forever. I can't get out of it, and I want to wake up for real. How do you really wake up?

L: I don't know. I don't know. I'm not very good at that anymore. But if that's what you're thinking, you probably should. I mean, if you can wake up, you should, because some day you won't be able to. But it's easy. Just wake up.

[L waves his hand; W wakes up. Again.]

~dialogue: Richard Linklater & Wiley Wiggins; from the movie "Waking Life"
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LT_lurker



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:08 am    Post subject: Glad to be here Reply with quote

Quote:
Philip K. Dick’s 1964 novel, The Penultimate Truth.
But as Nicholas St. James, the president of one ant tank, discovers when he ventures to the surface to find an artificial pancreas for a dying repairman, the actual truth is something different altogether. The war ended long ago, but the powers that be kept going the lie so that those dwelling under the earth would be motivated to keep the system going while living in virtual slavery.



There were some quite interesting topics covered in the movie waking life. That, however, is not why I so perservered to find this thread. No, it was to discuss Phillip K Dick - the ideas put forward by Hawkwind regarding him.

I was reading a critique of a popular power-analyst and one of them was the following:

Quote:
Kenlee
I think the problem here is that Alan Watt wakes people up to a certain extent but then offers no way out. I get the impression that he knows about esoteric work but it seems to me it’s not mentioned much in his talks apart from giving the impression of how it was bastardized by psychopaths Does he understand the importance of learning how to establish an objective communication to the universe via the network principle?

Basically the only way out is ‘up’ (growing the magnetic center, seating the soul, developing a conduit), and this is where esoteric work comes in since it offers hope. If there is no hope then any knowledge gained will become its own inertia and this will weigh one down like dead wood. If one does not know how to burn the wood and utilize this inertia to produce energy then what’s the use of carrying around a bunch of wood at all?

Also, the basis of what he teaches is based more on listening then ‘looking.’ What I mean is that one is listening more to Watt then one is doing their own ‘looking’, that is, their own active research, reading, studying, which sharpens the critical faculties of the mind. The end result of this "listening without looking" is that whatever unconscious program that Watt himself is under the influence of will be correspondingly programmed into his ‘listeners’ and so it goes…
It may be like this. If you shine a flashlight onto the floor and you hold it close (to the floor) it will make a bright spot. But the further away you take the light from the floor, that is, the more you see the bigger picture, the more diffuse the spot of light on the floor will become. So in order to maintain the intensity of this larger spot of light one must increase the wattage of the bulb. Watt does not seem to see the big picture (in hyperdimensional) terms. That doesn’t mean he has to talk about it directly but at least he could leave it ‘open.’ He seems to close it off and as things happen in the future, which requires seeing the bigger picture, the knowledge he is dispersing will loose its intensity and fade away.

Not only that, or perhaps worse, if someone’s “teachings” increases our consciousness (and knowledge) and we don’t know how to utilize it properly (in the esoteric sense), then this increased consciousness will just drive the reaction machine in us even harder when this consciousness “collapses” due to its lack of proper utilization.

The fear (or anger) that’s produced from this greater knowledge, without teaching how to utilize it properly, will become destructive instead of constructive. The end result is loss of hope and this produces even more fear and people will just wind up breaking each others heads even harder and become divided towards each other even more-so then before.

Last edited by kenlee (2007-09-23 02:24:42)


Add that alongside another critique of Watt during an Intel_Strike stand in show, where a person called in with a critical line saying that there are many matrices, and that Watt had only seen one, in effect missing the many other layers. This caller also made an interesting remark that Watt missed the fact that it is where the pieces do not fit where the real information is contrained, and that in these pieces are also many possibilities, and it really gets fascinating.

Let me now put alonside these Hawkwind classical incisive critique of Watt, which seemed to have totally undermined the appeal of his arguments:

Quote:
Hawkwind

OK, let’s try to tackle the topic of Alan Watt honestly. I’ve listened to this guy’s audios and read a good portion of his web site and guess what? “Nothing new under the sun …” On the surface he’s just David Icke without the love and peace angle … pump up the “fear”, AJ, with a calm demeanor. It’s too easy to point out that historically every organized civilization has had its “bourgeoisie”, endlessly floundering in confusion and hypocrisy over the motives of the “elite”. Anyone who uses the phrase “esoteric knowledge” has spent too much time with the propaganda of elitism. What a divisive and effective phrase to make sure we “stay stupid” and continue to consume mass quantities … no bio chips needed, just keep buying shit and we will get along just fine. Unfortunately Watt is just reiterating the fiction/philosophy of Philip K. Dick, he conveniently overlooks Dick’s proposed source of this so-called “esoteric knowledge”. According to Dick, this knowledge is not from the distant past, but from the distant future! Apparently the future, like Watt's past is endlessly bombarding us with information that can be “channeled” to the so-called “prophets” of our time. Philip K. Dick is no doubt the father of the cyber-punk movement in literature.

Watt likes to use pop culture and media as reference points for the implementation of this “knowledge”, while using Orwell’s books and movies or even more current movies like “The Matrix”, along with historical writings from the "elite" ... those who had writing implements ... hardly an accurate view of the past, not unlike Dick's potentially inaccurate view of the future. He conveniently ignores the similar movies like “Blade Runner”, “Total Recall”, “Minority Report”, “A Scanner Darkly” and the soon to be released, “Next” … all loosely based on one of Dick’s short stories or novels. I highly recommend that you read any Phillip K. Dick novel or get right down into the mix of his philosophy with a biography called “Divine Invasions” by Lawrence Sutin. Philip was either brilliant or insane … or both but you will get a real good feel for where all these hacks like Watts and Icke are coming from. Philip K. Dick died or found “salvation” on March 2, 1982.

His peak of “insight/insanity” came when he realized that his story “Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said” was being repeated to the last detail over and over again as a common experience between all of us. A biblical scholar pointed out to him that the story was a retelling of the book of Acts from the Hebrew bible, although Dick claimed to have never read the bible. It suddenly dawned on him that we live in a perpetual loop, somewhere between the “land of the dead” and “salvation”. Reality is nothing more than a pointed question, do you believe? The simple answer “yes” breaks the loop and sends us on our way to the next level.

I realize that you are thinking, “WTF?” and you may be right but I want to encourage folks to look into the roots of these “new” methodology thinkers and their processes. “Nothing new under the sun …”

--

My post was not pointed in your general direction and I’m glad you picked up on that. I tend to just respond to the overall flow of the thread. There are too many people held on pedestals in this thing called the “movement”, ask Fintan about my pointed methods … and we’re still buds. My problem with Watt’s analysis of history is that while trying to use the “elitist’s” own words against them; he’s never heard this simple song by Roger Waters: Your Possible Pasts

With the cacophony of "elitist" historical documents, any researcher can draw an infinite number of motives or conclusions. I am not convinced … yet. And yes it is statistically probable that an infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of computers “may” produce a Shakespearian play. That’s how I see this method of research … not convincing to me. A piece of paper with a bunch of dots drawn on it will eventually lead to a recognizable pattern … probably a face … a projection of the analyst’s state of mind.

Many “very silly” disciples of these characters are either unable to handle a rational probing of their “messiahs” … or are exactly what I have been accused of being … the “T” word. Like vomit telling shit that it stinks!

If you noticed, I used the cliché term “bourgeoisie” as a sarcastic anchor to the basic global “Marxist” undertone of Watt’s analysis. Remember that since Plato had a “Utopian” vision … there must be an “elitist” plot for a “New World Order”… ¿entiendes lo que quiero decir?

Ah, never mind, we’re cool …



Quote:
Toto
I have been thinking about this too. There seems to be a fine line between being pre-programmed "predictive programming" or conditioning to embrace NWO ideas and those who are expsoing the future agenda. The people like Alan Watt who is seen as "exposing" what they have planned for us. Alan Watt could be involved in the agenda. In the exposing there is also a certain amount of programming going on. In the later case then the person who exposes is seen as a prophet or hero rather than a part of the bigger agenda.


Having laid out the above data, I wanted to comment on this notion of a subconscious programme, and with that, the whole concept of hypnosis - the concept that by narrowing a peoplle's focus onto oneaspect of a vastly ambiguous platform, you can use them for free labour, finding more data to conform a programme you have downloaded them with, as I see is mostly the case with the 'New World Order' delusion.

Using mainly fear tactis, speculation and random rantings, it seems that people are completely being led to miss the point and the proper emphasis, that being that 'everybody want's a system so perfect that the people inside do not have to be good'

Such a paradigm almost completely negatves any prospect of sentient choice and the power people have to alter their course, instead, robbing people of their sentience by captivating them with an unassiable trail of possible future scenarios to come.

So what happens with this... attention without intention... slwoly we gather data to confirm our programmed biased, hardly conscious of the fact, with the result being, visions of the future.

Of course this can not account for all experiences, for I do not doubt that many accounts of these visions may be genuine. The point I am interested in is whether or not these visions are rational or psychological. Rather than attribute it all to external sources, is this diverting our attention from the inherent power of choice we have inside, or even the more fantastic arguments denying fate, in favour of 'visions from the future' of the nature of those that exist at the source - the files we have stored in our inifinte awareness.

So then, what is this idea of visions from the future, and has it come to us before. I ask, why is it in the Harry Potter movie, he at first believes he is saved by his Dad, only to look at the vision from a different angle, revelaing that it was him who in the future saved himself.

Why is the movie paycheck also dealing with fate, and how we find ourselves in certain moments, situations and even sequences of events that suggest that we are very much lost, detached from our true selves.

Flow My tears the police man said.

I argue instead.

"One, No One, and One Hundred Thousand,"

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hawkwind



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Glad to be here Reply with quote

LT_lurker wrote:
Let me now put alonside these Hawkwind classical incisive critique of Watt, which seemed to have totally undermined the appeal of his arguments:


OK, I'll bite ... (as Hawk continues to scratch his head) ... Shocked Question

- Hawk

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Tom



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all - sorry for my poor English and so forth..

I stopped pushing my views on the NWO into everybodies throats. Hopefully others will do the same.

If somebody needs the detour of "NWO" to get to spirituality and higher learning, why not. So I am not fighting esoterism anymore.

But what is wrong about finding the facts on the NWO? If you think its real and you take it seriously, what is wrong about a fact based discussion?

Quote:
With the cacophony of "elitist" historical documents, any researcher can draw an infinite number of motives or conclusions. I am not convinced … yet. And yes it is statistically probable that an infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of computers “may” produce a Shakespearian play. That’s how I see this method of research … not convincing to me. A piece of paper with a bunch of dots drawn on it will eventually lead to a recognizable pattern … probably a face … a projection of the analyst’s state of mind.


There are a couple of things going on, as:

the growing police state mentality and reality - emerging through little steps we read about every day

the regional superstates emerging, leading to increased global governance - EU, NAFTA/SPP, ASEAN+/Asian Union, African Union

Childmolesting, strange cults and rituals and so forth

The "black magic" of the financial market

US and G8 Geostategies

And so forth

All these points can be evaluated one by one and each individually adressed - as some activists and such do

But there are those who tie those events together, calling it the "NWO" - suddenly all is possible: big PsyOps, fabricated wars and so forth.

Now, there are some sources pointing to a NWO.....I say, let's check em out - like REALLY check em out, wheter or not they fly, wheter or not they hold up to scrutiny.

But that seems to be too much work to some, and useless to others - because only in spirutuality lies the answer, THEY say.

I can understand if somebody just stops investing time into this "NWO" - Business. I have difficulties understanding the viewpoint, that YES there is a NWO, but NO, lets not investigate it properly - because this is leading nowhere...

If it IS leading nowhere - then no harm done, because what we are doing until know is IMO leading nowhere just the same. So again, no harm done, there is nothing to loose, except a lot of time.

I say, it would be time well spend, to go finally to the bottom of things, instead of constantly connecting every other event to a myth, everybody is talking about, but nobody has ever seen - the NWO.

As I see it, we should see A LOT more good research, just to keep the ballance. For now, the spiritual/philosophic/esoteric-corner is rather dominating the discussion in the end, because people need some kind of answer to this dark phantom NWO. Since the NWO stays rather blurry, so do the answers, I suppose.

Again, higher learning is important - but so is getting your facts rights, damn it! So lets be clear about WHY we are against the Lissbon threaty, Victroty Act, future intervention in Dafur and Zimbabwe, the political Establishment of today and, yes, fear-mongers as Alex Jones and Fruit Loopes as David Icke. Let's be clear - no half-truths, no "devine inspirations", no unexplained feelings. The subconcious can be manipuliated as much as our logical mind - we will need both. So let's not forget that and research properly - besides uplifting our spirits and striving for the "next level".

PS: I suggest cooperative research in a wiki, as a working evironment.

For example: What about those quotes about the NWO, that are popping up now and again on these kind of web pages? What is there backgroud? Context? Real, intended meaning?

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hawkwind



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
First of all - sorry for my poor English and so forth..


Never a problem ...

Tom wrote:
But what is wrong about finding the facts on the NWO? If you think its real and you take it seriously, what is wrong about a fact
based discussion?


If the facts are timely, politically and socially relevant ... there is no problem. I think the term "NWO" is an appropriate term for the current "globalization" project.

Hawk wrote:
With the cacophony of "elitist" historical documents, any researcher can draw an infinite number of motives or conclusions. I am not convinced … yet. And yes it is statistically probable that an infinite number of monkeys, typing on an infinite number of computers “may” produce a Shakespearian play. That’s how I see this method of research … not convincing to me. A piece of paper with a bunch of dots drawn on it will eventually lead to a recognizable pattern … probably a face … a projection of the analyst’s state of mind.


Still stand by this quote in a broad context ... history is not something that can be deconstructed by a conspiracy theorist's crayon.

Tom wrote:
There are a couple of things going on, as:

the growing police state mentality and reality - emerging through little steps we read about every day

the regional superstates emerging, leading to increased global governance - EU, NAFTA/SPP, ASEAN+/Asian Union, African Union

Childmolesting, strange cults and rituals and so forth

The "black magic" of the financial market

US and G8 Geostategies

And so forth


Wow, heady and fear-based drivel. I don't buy it, nor do I buy it from most of the sellers.


Tom wrote:
All these points can be evaluated one by one and each individually adressed - as some activists and such do


And badly at that ...

Tom wrote:
For example: What about those quotes about the NWO, that are popping up now and again on these kind of web pages? What is there backgroud? Context? Real, intended meaning?


I would keep this comment in miniscule font as you did ... it's not really relevant, just more stuff to spread more doubt ... try not to do this ... it negates all of your good points.

- Hawk

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Tom



Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 130
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx for responding.

Quote:
the growing police state mentality and reality - emerging through little steps we read about every day


You are negating this, seriously? I mean "War on Terror", anyone? It is two steps forward, one back IMO.

Quote:
the regional superstates emerging, leading to increased global governance - EU, NAFTA/SPP, ASEAN+/Asian Union, African Union


That is a fact. Again, there is a lot of room for interpretation.
I forgot the South American Union.

Quote:
Childmolesting, strange cults and rituals and so forth


Happens all the time. But is this connected? I am not convinced.

Quote:
The "black magic" of the financial market


For most it is "black magic", for some just a living (a very lucrative one, too)

US and G8 Geostategies
And so forth

hawkwind wrote:
Quote:
it's not really relevant, just more stuff to spread more doubt ... try not to do this ... it negates all of your good points.


OK, so in your opinion, what IS relevant?

Also, what is your position? That the whole John Birtch Society - Operation is just a ruse to distract from the real happening - globalization?
Has the NWO arrived, or is there more to come, when it comes to institutions?

I never had doubts about our unability to find the "truth" - but I would argue for trying anyway.

"Let's be realistic - and try the impossible."

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LT_lurker



Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 37
Location: fortress britain

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you all need to calm down with this paranoid type thinking that everyone that is pure strange is a secret operative trying to bring down your forum. You really think any intelligent people who see where their country is going are going to be relying on a bodiless world.

elbowdeep made clear all of this in the War and Peace Forum.

That aside, although I can't even be that asked anymore, I only signed up to speak to you (hawkwind) and elbow deep.

Elb seems ok in general, whilst the member Hawkwind, I wanted to actually discuss this idea of having visions from the future, for I tend to think about many things and then have them confirmed, think about people then see or hear about them and I tend to keep an idea in my head, only to have it put together and form a puzzle later.

I came here to explore this idea that what we call intuition is in fact a sophisticated form of (forward) thought processing which we have no words for, despite being ahead of us.

Do you think I would keep archives on the information which I have gleaned from this site for nothing.

I've seen patterns which I really do not think others can even conceive, and I have an idea of where this forum is going - becoming the very same thing it thought it was fighting.

That aside, I really came here to create a topic revisiting and rexamining the notion of psychopaths/twisted geniuses, for I have some additional data which may make a few searching forum members change their entire perspective on the subject.
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zak247



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 949

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we might not know or understand is that within this crooked world, like the hidden Easter egg in the grass, are the keys to our liberation.

Just keep lookin
Or start to look.

Now, this NWO is not new. It is the same archetype that the mystic mythology of Jesus faced 2000 years ago, in the form of the Romans.
[THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN]

It is though, more pronounced, AND WILL ALWAYS BE HERE until the macrocosm straitens itself out, that will then allow for the MICROCOSMS to do the same
But it won’t be easy
[AS ABOVE SO BELOW]
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Fintan
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 8299

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
LT_lurker: I think you all need to calm down with this
paranoid type thinking that everyone that is pure strange
is a secret operative trying to bring down your forum.

Give us a little credit dude. Wink
We don't think that.
That would be paranoia.

Most of the problems we have had here is with simple but deluded trolls
--who are Alex Jones fans or 'planers' or 'no planers' or whatever-- and
who think it's fun to go try mess with the heads of the folks on BFN
because we have dissed their favorite intel stooge.

But also we have had, and do get, professional attention due to
BFN's unique 'CIA Fake' take on events. A take which is a threat
to the comprehensive lock the Intel boys have had for years on
the alternative internet media. That's the reality part. No sweat.

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They only function when open.


Last edited by Fintan on Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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