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Nat



Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 840
Location: minime-rica

PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

capitolgangster wrote:
thanks for the welcome matt... i've read a lot of your posts. intelligent, articulate et cetera.... i think your point of collective death (lacking a better term) is valid, but we shouldn't cofuse popularism with populism. In the grand scheme, how important is it that the bastards offed someone? I just finished watching some video about the Kennedy assasination being, primarily, a test for George Sr. (in addition to the group orgy in the tomb) to prove his loyalty. Perhaps the french or someone else was just simply proving their loyalty. That, if it is the case, robs the event as a galvinizing force for populisim

...thank you, but you are too kind...[i]we all smell funny here, it's just 'cos out there, the air is so permeated with merde de vache that it takes a while to adjust, i myself smell of shiitake mushrooms


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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:19 am    Post subject: Diana: The Hard Questions Reply with quote

Diana: The Hard Questions

Thankfully, Mohammed al-Fayed has no intention of giving up.

Quote:


Outraged Fayed ignores plea to end Diana allegations

London, Dec 14 (ANI): Harrods boss Mohamed Al Fayed refused to give in to pleas of Princess Diana's closest friend Rosa Monckton, who appealed
to him to end his public campaign of trying to prove that the British
Secret Service was behind the death of his son Dodi and the princess.


Mohamed Fayed accused Lord Stevens of being blackmailed by the
Establishment. He publicly repudiated the report by Lord Stevens of
Kirkwhelpington, the former Metropolitan Police Commissioner, even
before its publication.

He accused Lord Stevens of being blackmailed by the British Establishment and claimed that the theft of a laptop computer from the former policeman's office six months ago had been organised by secret service agents.

The revelation that Fayed plans to fight on will cause despair at Clarence House as the Prince of Wales and his sons William and Harry had hoped the report by Lord Stevens would bring an end to speculation over the death of the princess, reports the Telegraph.....

http://www.dailyindia.com/show/93044.php/Outraged-Fayed-ignores-plea-to-end-Diana-allegations


Mohammed has it wrong. I think the break-in's at Stevens' offices were
smokescreen. Nobody needs to blackmail Lord Stevens. Ex-Met
police boss? Gimme a break.

Quote:
DI PROBE CHIEF'S PC IS NICKED
By Jeremy Armstrong 7 February 2006 UK Mirror

.....A source close to Lord Stevens confirmed computer equipment had
been stolen, including a laptop and personal papers, in two raids within a
week at his office in Gosforth, Newcastle....
LINK


Stevens and the media say the "conspiracy theories" have been answered.
Really? My comments in red below.

Quote:
William and Harry call for end to speculation over mother's death

The Scotsman - ALISON HARDIE

PRINCES William and Harry last night called for an end to the speculation surrounding the crash which killed their mother after a police investigation concluded Diana, Princess of Wales, died as the result of a tragic accident.

The three-year investigation, led by the former Metropolitan Police commissioner Lord Stevens, debunked every conspiracy theory that has grown up since the Paris crash on 31 August, 1997.

It incontrovertibly stated that the princess, 36, had not been pregnant at the time of her death, and found no evidence that she had been planning to marry her boyfriend, Dodi Fayed, 42.

And while Lord Stevens' report found Henri Paul, the driver of the Mercedes carrying the princess and Mr Fayed, had been speeding and was over the drink-driving limit, it did not apportion any blame. Unveiling the 832-page report on his exhaustive inquiry, Lord Stevens also said he found nothing to justify any further inquiries.

A statement from Clarence House last night said: "Prince William and Prince Harry are extremely grateful to Lord Stevens and his team for the thoroughness and professionalism they have shown during their investigation, and trust that these conclusive findings will end the speculation surrounding the death of their mother Diana, Princess of Wales."

Lord Stevens added: "Three people tragically lost their lives in the accident and one was seriously injured. I very much hope that the publication of this report will help to bring some closure to all who continue to mourn the deaths of Diana, Princess of Wales and Dodi Fayed."

Harrods boss attacks report and promises to fight on

MOHAMED al-Fayed yesterday dismissed Lord Stevens' report as a smokescreen and called for his findings to be scrutinised by an independent jury.

The Harrods owner, who has repeatedly insisted his son and the Princess of Wales were killed in an MI6 plot, said he did want closure on the events of 1997.

But, through a spokesman, he said: "Everything should be put before a jury of ordinary people, in public, in a coroner's court.

"All the matters contained in the Stevens report need to be thoroughly tested. Witnesses need to be called and witnesses need to be cross-examined."

He said the 3.69 million spent on the Stevens inquiry was a "waste".

"I feel sorry for the taxpayers and the money that has been wasted on such garbage," he added.

"Whatever it's going to cost me, if it costs me the last penny in my purse, I'm not going to rest until I get the gangsters."


The conspiracies and myths answered by the Stevens inquiry

Was Diana pregnant?

No. The photograph of the princess in a bathing suit used repeatedly by Mohamed al-Fayed as evidence she was pregnant was taken before her relationship with Dodi began.

According to Dr Richard Shepherd, a Home Office pathologist, there were "no pathological features to support the suggestion of a pregnancy".

Bloodstains found in the wreckage, identified as those of the Princess of Wales, were also tested and showed no sign of the pregnancy hormone.

Comment: I Believe the pregnancy issue was a red herring. Straw Man.

Was she engaged to Dodi?

Dodi Fayed may have been planning to propose to the Princess of Wales on the weekend they died, Lord Stevens' report concluded, but the "weight of evidence" suggested the princess was not intending to become engaged or married to him.

Prince William had "no knowledge" of any plans by his mother to become engaged to Mr Fayed. Other confidantes, including her eldest sister Lady Sarah McCorquodale and her friend Lady Annabel Goldsmith, said she had dismissed such an idea.

But there was evidence that Mr Fayed had selected a ring at Repossi, a jewellers, in Paris.

Comment: Complete Fucking Lies!

Repossi's testimony - backed up by receipts and CCTV footage - reveals
Dodi and Diana picked a $305,000 emerald and diamond ring from a
range of engagement bands called "Did-Moi Oui" which means "Tell Me
Yes" at his Monte Carlo jewelry store in August 1997.
http://www.breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1426

CCTV fottage of them BOTH in the jewelers, and yet the spin is that
Dodi had bright ideas of marriage which Diana would not entertain.


Had the car in which she and Dodi were passengers been tampered with?

There was no evidence of tampering with the Mercedes, the report said.

Suggestions that the car's speedometer was stuck at 192 kilometres per hour (120mph) after the crash were not correct. The instrument had returned to zero after the impact and tests suggested the crash speed was at about 65mph.

Comment: Another Straw Man. The speedometer issue is another
deliberate diversionary red herring. And that's supposed to dispose of the
question of tampering??!!? What about the removal of the Mercedes
electronic control microprocessor system and it's replacement
by the
variety which allows remote steering at the flick of a switch? A known
technique used to create accidents for inconvenient heads of state. And
one perfected for the Mercedes luxury cars favored by the wealthy.


Was her death plotted because Dodi was a Muslim?

The report concluded there would have been no opposition to her relationship by the Royal Family as the princess had previously conducted a two-year relationship with Hasnat Khan, a surgeon who is a Muslim. The report said the princess had explored the prospect of an inter-faith marriage to Mr Khan.

Mr Khan told Operation Paget - Scotland Yard's inquiry - that it would have been "very naive to think MI5 or MI6 didn't have an interest in [him]" because of his relationship with the princess, but insisted that at no time had he ever felt under threat from the authorities.

The report also found that, contrary to some conspiracy theories, the Duke of Edinburgh did not write threatening letters to the princess that led her to fear for her life.

Comment: Beautiful. Ignoring completely the letter Diana wrote
stating her own fears and the source of those fears.


Was driver Henri Paul in the pay of French or British intelligence?

Suspicions about Mr Paul's involvement in the crash were first raised after it was discovered he had 2,000 in cash on him at the time of the accident and that he had 170,000 deposited across 15 separate bank accounts. Mohamed Fayed alleged this proved he was a paid informant of MI6 and the French intelligence service.

Lord Stevens stated: "There is no evidence that Henri Paul was a paid informant of MI6." Of the money in his accounts, the report stated: "Although these amounts were inconsistent with his salary, they are not so large as to be conclusive of his involvement in illicit or clandestine activity."

Comment: The question is not whether he worked for MI6, it's whether
he worked for French Intel. the article neatly sidesteps this and tries to
maintain that 170,000 in 15 separate bank accounts was not particularly
suspicious. By the way, as Henri Paul WAS working for French Intel DST, that
means he was de facto working for MI6. The two intel agencies work
hand in glove --under a carefully fabricated cover fable which pretends
they are rivals. Yawn.



What was the MI5/MI6 connection?

Lord Stevens found no evidence to back up claims that the security services were involved in any way in Diana's death.

Mohamed Fayed alleged British security services staged the crash in order to kill Diana and his son, Dodi.

Lord Stevens said both MI5 and MI6 co-operated fully with Operation Paget, allowing serving officers to be interviewed and written records to be examined. The CIA said it had no relevant information that would change the inquiry's conclusions.

Comment: Yeah, Stevens interviewed the guy in MI6 who is in charge of
ordering supplies of paperclips. He also interviewed at length the toilet
cleaners.

And the the CIA said it had no relevant information.
Great! That settles that. Time for sleepy bye-byes.



After the crash, were samples of Henri Paul's blood tampered with or swapped to incriminate him?

The report concluded there was no evidence that either blood samples or his body had been swapped with another, or that samples from another body had been placed in that of Mr Paul before toxicology testing.

The report stated: "The evidence indicates it was the blood of Henri Paul that was analysed."

Comment: Swap, adulterate, who cares. The aim was to provide
a convenient and dead scapegoat. The forensics were compromised.
And a kill team was involved in that tunnel to make sure who that those
scripted to "die in the crash" were dead --one way or another.


Was the driver of a white Fiat Uno paid by MI6 to career into the Mercedes?

The owner of the Fiat has never been traced and the report denied claims a photographer, James Andanson, who had owned a similar car, had been murdered by intelligence agents two years after causing the crash.

Comment: Tread carefully here. These boys build in diversions to trap
those who they expect will not believe the mainstream spin. Andandon
burned to death in his car in a remote location in the asshole of nowhere.
There are a much more subtle ways of getting rid of somebody. I think
the whole "mysterious Fiat Uno" issue is a deliberate dead end.


What was the involvement of the paparazzi and did their actions contribute to the crash?

Film seized from the cameras of three paparazzi who were first at the scene showed that they continued taking photographs.

The report stated: "Although some may regard the actions of the paparazzi to be morally questionable, there was no evidence to show that those arriving immediately after the crash, or those arriving later, deliberately interfered with attempts to save the passengers or undertook any actions that showed they were involved in a conspiracy to harm them."

Comment: Paparazzi = Patsi

Why was there no CCTV footage of the accident in the Pont d'Alma tunnel?

Despite Mr Fayed's claims there were at least ten CCTV units along the route taken by the Mercedes, the report found all were private cameras facing inwards towards the doors of office buildings. The camera above the Pont D'Alma was routinely switched off at 11pm, before the accident happened.

Comment: "Routinely switched off" Really?

Did the French medical system fail Diana and could she have survived with better treatment?

The report stated: "There is no evidence to show that any alternative treatment, either at the scene or in hospital, would have saved the life of the Princess of Wales." The treatment was different to standard procedure in Britain, but cannot be held to blame, the report added. "The evidence is that every effort was made to save her life."

Comment: Yeah every effort was made allright. Took 'em
70 minutes to travel 3.7 miles to the hospital, passing two other hospitals on the way, when straight to ER was the best place to treat her.


Did Diana speak to a French nurse at hospital, asking her to tell her sister to "look after my boys"?

No. The report stated that Diana never regained consciousness on arrival at the hospital before being pronounced dead.

"It was not possible therefore for a nurse or indeed any other person to have heard the Princess of Wales say anything in the hospital."

Comment: More straw man stuff

Was Diana's body embalmed to conceal evidence?

The report said her body was embalmed to make it presentable before being viewed by her relatives.

One experienced embalmer told Operation Paget he believed this had been the only way to ensure this. There had been no reason to test for pregnancy and a burial certificate had been granted.

Comment: Yet more straw man

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1860662006


Here's that report on paparazzi James Andanson.
Condensed print for brevity. Copy/paste the text to view it.

Quote:

HOW DID DIANA PAPARAZZO DIE?

By GREG SWIFT in Millau
Daily Express June 9, 2000

THE SHADY dealings and secret meetings that led to top paparazzi cameraman James Andanson being linked with Princess Diana's death may ultimately have caused his own. Andanson's barely-identifiable remains were found in his burned-out car in a French woodland last month.

Initially, police believed that he had committed suicide; but now there is growing speculation that he may have been murdered. His widow Elizabeth, 45, was yesterday at their luxurious farmhouse in central France, still stunned by his death but unable to believe that he had killed himself.

Meanwhile, confidential police forensic reports - seen by the Daily Express - about Andanson's possible role in the Diana tragedy potentially place him squarely at the centre of events.

They indicate that paintwork and plastics from a white Fiat Uno owned by Andanson, 54, match exactly evidence recovered from Diana's Mercedes which had clipped a Uno before crashing in a Paris tunnel in August 1997.

Those findings, coupled with question marks about an alibi Andanson gave to prove he was not in Paris on the night Diana died, have led to fears that his death may be connected to the Paris crash. For Elizabeth, the mystery surrounding his death has only added to the agonies she has suffered since losing her husband of more than 20 years.

Reminders of him are everywhere in their home, built 10 years ago with the profits made from years of chasing stars and royals across Europe.

On the edge of Lignieres village, the house called Le Manoir de la Bergerie has a Union flag fluttering in the garden, a symbol, his wife said, of Andanson's great affection for Britain.

Mrs Andanson said she could not begin to understand the circumstances of his death and still waited for the police to provide some answers.

The elegant, attractive widow said: "James came home on May 4 from a job in Paris and left almost at once for another job. That was not unusual and in all the years of our marriage I had got used to him dashing in and out without saying where he had been or where he was going. There were periods when we hardly saw each other.

"I had assumed he was going back to Paris but the next day a gendarme came to see me and told me a body had been found inside a car in Nant, in southern France, and they thought it was James.

"I was too shocked. My reaction was one of utter disbelief. There had been nothing unusual about James before he had left. Everything had been normal and now this awful news.

"The next day the police came round once more and told me that they had identified the body in the car as being my husband's, from DNA results. The judge investigating the case in Millau has told me that she excludes no explanation for the tragedy but I have heard nothing for some time now. I am not sure what happened or why. My husband had been stressed for a while before he died but I put that down to the normal stresses of being a journalist. Did he have any enemies? There were none that I knew of but then, in his line of work, anything was possible."

Andanson was well-known on the paparazzi circuit, which operates around the Mediterranean during the summer. Starting at St Tropez in southern France, it spreads round the coast to northern Italy, a haven for celebrities from May to August.

While Andanson would photograph any celebrity, he had made a speciality of travelling around Europe snapping royals, in particular the British Royal Family, while working for the Sigma and lately the Sypa photographic agencies in France.

It is rumoured that he once made GBP 100,000 from a picture of Prince Charles kissing royal nanny Tiggy Legge-Bourke while they were skiing with his sons in Klosters.

Andanson was at the head of the paparazzi chasing Diana around the Mediterranean in the weeks before she died, but his wife insisted that he was doing no more than he would have done in any summer.

"James travelled to St Tropez every summer, it was part of his routine," she said. "He would always be photographing on that circuit and I would often travel down to see him and stay with him there.

"He was not hounding Diana during that period - he spent two months in that area every year.

"But I didn't keep a track of his movements as he was always rushing in and out. When he was at home, he was at home. When he was off on a job, he was on a job. Police have given me no hard evidence and until they do, I will have no firm opinion. There is no point in my trying to guess if it was suicide or murder."

It will now be the task of Alain Durand, the public prosecutor at the High Court of Millau, to run an investigation that will seek to establish the true cause of his death.

The location of Andanson's death is suspicious in itself. Instead of driving the 190 miles north to Paris, Andanson's car travelled in the opposite direction, ending up almost 400 miles south of his home, on the Larzac plateau near Montpellier. Taking a narrow, unmarked road, his car was driven to a tiny hamlet called Les Lassiques Basses where it turned off on to a dusty, pot-holed farm track.

Two miles later, and surrounded by empty countryside, his car turned off the track and bounced almost a mile uphill across a cow field before crashing through dense forest to a clearing that few locals knew existed.

Yesterday a trail of melted metal led to the huge patch of scorched earth and trees that marks the spot where Andanson's body was found.

Farmer Julian Christian, 37, who owns the land, was one of the first at the scene after the alarm had been raised by a nearby army base, whose sentries spotted smoke on the horizon. The isolation of the location meant that by the time anyone arrived, the fire had gone out. Mr Christian said: "I came into this clearing and the car was badly melted. The glass had shattered, you could still feel the heat and the driver's body, well, it was hardly there."

Police and justice officials are still refusing to commit themselves to an opinion on Andanson's death. A court official said: "We are considering the evidence before making up our minds."

Mrs Andanson would not be drawn on making a connection between her husband's death and the crash which killed Diana. She said: "When our Fiat Uno was impounded by the police I was very worried about what might happen but James stayed calm. Eventually, the police said they were satisfied that the car was not the one that was supposed to have been involved in the crash."

BUT ACCORDING to the reports seen by the Daily Express - and which eventually ruled out Andanson's car being the one involved in the Diana tragedy - there are distinct matches between his car and the samples salvaged from Diana's crashed Mercedes.

A report says: "The comparative analysis of the infra-red spectra characterising the vehicle's original paint, reference Bianco 210, and the trace on the rear view mirror of the Mercedes shows that their absorption bands are identical." It goes on: "The comparative analysis between the infra-red spectra characterising the black polymer taken from the vehicle's fender, and the trace taken from the door of the Mercedes, shows that their absorption bands are identical."

Question marks have also been raised about the alibi used by Andanson to prove that he was not in Paris on the night of the crash. Andanson told detectives that he had been at home until 3.45am on August 31, when he travelled to Orly airport and caught a flight to Corsica.

His son James, now 20 - his daughter Kimberley is 12 - told police he thought his father was grape harvesting in Bordeaux and had phoned home that morning at about 4.30am.

By contrast, Elizabeth Andanson gave a statement saying that she had been at home with her husband and he had left at 4am.

Yesterday, she explained the inconsistencies by saying: "It was always very difficult to recall James's precise movements because he was always coming and going.

"The family was very used to that and so never paid a great deal of attention to the times he came and went."

The doubts surrounding James Andanson's death have alerted Mohamed Al Fayed, whose son Dodi was killed in the Paris crash with Diana.

Yesterday, the Harrods boss's head of security John Macnamara said: "Mr Al Fayed has never accepted that this was a simple traffic accident.

"He believes that his son and the Princess of Wales were murdered and he is quite sure that the truth will emerge in the fullness of time.

"Mr Andanson had for some time been a prime suspect who had relentlessly pursued Diana and Dodi prior to their arrival in Paris.

"We have always believed that Andanson was at the scene and that more investigation should have been done into his possible involvement.

"We believe that his death is no coincidence and that this is a line of inquiry which may help to discover the truth. Was Mr Andanson killed because of what he knew? That is a question we want answered."


Copyright 2000 EXPRESS NEWSPAPERS

http://web.archive.org/web/20051218141759/http://www.alfayed.com/details.asp?aid=57


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MichaelC



Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 2212

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The speedometer issue is another
deliberate diversionary red herring. And that's supposed to dispose of the
question of tampering??!!? What about the removal of the Mercedes
electronic control microprocessor system and it's replacement by the
variety which allows remote steering at the flick of a switch? A known
technique used to create accidents for inconvenient heads of state. And
one perfected for the Mercedes luxury cars favored by the wealt


I still don't see what were the exact logistics of the 'op' but this(remote control)starts to make some sense.
But wasn't it even more difficult to achieve the 'desired result' when both of the targets were in the back seat?
The whole thing still seems to me like a rather 'not likely to succeed' method of offing a person.

I would still like to see a step-by-step synopsis of what likely happened from the moment they left the Ritz, including any 'advance preparations' that might have been put in place.
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Nat



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...

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MichaelC



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably the only person who knows what REALLY happened is the bodyguard - some hot looking Brit named Trevor - who was riding in the front seat and did wear a seat belt and did survive.

Haven't heard a peep from him. Except that he 'blacked out and could not remember a thing...."

So what gives?

They made him an offer he could not refuse?

What's up Trevor?
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
MichaelC: But wasn't it even more difficult to achieve the 'desired result' when both of the targets were in the back seat?
The whole thing still seems to me like a rather 'not likely to succeed' method of offing a person.

The car crash is only needed to serve as the pretext for the deaths of the
intended targets. Agents among the emergency responders or others at
the scene ensure the planned deaths actually happen --one way or another.

BTW, note the heavy use of the Orgy of Evidence trick -just as in 9/11.

Let's see. Was it drunken driver Henri Paul, or was it the Fiat Uno, or was
it a strobe-light weapon used to blind the driver, or was it a motorcycle
which swerved in front of the car, or were the rear seatbelts tampered
with, ....etc...etc.
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MichaelC



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

comprendo.
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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Diana: The Hard Questions Reply with quote

My guess is - if this "annoying" Arab doesn't stop "whining" soon about having his beloved son murdered for getting in the way of geopolitical "progress", there'll soon be a very convincing link to one of his holdings and "al-Qaeda."

At least, that's where I'd go with it. Maybe one of those Muslim school resources they used to associate the tube bombers with the "Islamofacists". Not a big deal - just a nice bit of highly-publicized, nuanced insinuation would paint him as the "evil sympathizer" he could easily become to the normally-bigoted.

Cool

_________________
"No matter what happens, ever... there's ALWAYS at least one reason. And the top reason is ALWAYS money."


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Useful Eater



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good posts by everyone but I'm still stuck about the bodyguard who survived. Where is he now? Why hasn't he said anything?

Like michaelc hinted, its all too convenient that the lone surviver is nowhere to be seen or heard, I mean did they even attempt to interview him in the Stevens whitewash?
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MichaelC



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to recall that the bodyguard - named Trevor something - wrote a 'tell-all' book or essay(which of course told absolutely nothing) several years ago. Have not heard a word about him since.
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Rumpl4skn



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MichaelC wrote:
I seem to recall that the bodyguard - named Trevor something - wrote a 'tell-all' book or essay(which of course told absolutely nothing) several years ago. Have not heard a word about him since.

Didn't see this post until today.

Yes, MC. It's always helpful to have a surviving witness, who - later down the line - comes out somewhat pissed off, claiming to want to "rip the lid off the cover-up". Only, when he lifts the lid, there's just some rotting fish inside. So, in the eyes of John Q, if that's all this guy has, what else could there be?

It's quite possible no one died in the actual crash, even Drunky the Driver. You make sure the political targets succumb to their "injuries", the targeted fall guy snuffs as well, but you leave one guy who was there, who certainly must know the truth. Then it turns out his 'truth' is 3 millimeters away from what they sold everyone in the first place, which is light years from reality.

Let me guess - he reported Di was giving Dido head in the back seat, and Henri was turning around to watch?

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Don Smith



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Her activism against land mines, her focus upon AIDS, much more...
She was a threat to the status quo.
Just because one is wealthy, it does not follow that the person is evil. The Red Terror sent people to Siberia because their family was aristocratic. Are we to follow the same perverted logic?

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