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Dale
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about the strength of my reaction yesterday about the Vatican Assassins. As I've written elsewhere on this website, I got suckered down into a terrible depression this winter after falling in with a 'bad internet crowd', as I put it. You've guessed it, the followers of Mr Eric Jon Phelps (thankfully they are small in number). I've only just started to feel mentally healthier since finding BFN, so I hope that helps explain why I reacted so strongly to the mention of the VA. When I also said elsewhere on this site that I've been spun all over the place with Dunblane, this is what I meant. After being contacted by people who wanted to find the Jewish connection re Dunblane, I fell into the hands of the Vatican Assassinsers. I've listened to several hours of Phelps interviews and I actually assumed he was an old man who had - in old age - set about this project. I've just watched 20 mins of the first google video put up by Damian, and I see he isn't an old man at all! And boy, is Phelps on a mission!

I don't want to drag this out too much, but when I heard one of Phelps' biggest fans - amongst that small band of interviewers who endlessly promote him - describe Britain as a 'dump', I challenged him on that. Had he ever been to Britain? No reply. Well what do you mean then? He said he meant a 'spiritual dump'. Well I guess that's one way of describing a largely secular nation.

The delusional paranoia of these guys is frightening. They believe that America was deliberately set up with a view to being ultimately taken down. That concentration camps are coming. That illegal Roman Catholic immigrants are deliberately being flooded into the country. That nuclear bombs will fall on the USA. That America is DOOMED! Well America is undoubtedly going to see changes, as is the UK, but we can try and shape that ourselves. Phelps and his Followers laugh at us 'new agers' who think we can stop the inevitable happening. I still find myself looking over my shoulder wondering if they are here reading. But I doubt it, because they are so indoctrinated with their beliefs that you wouldn't see them participating in any Forum. There is nothing for them to discuss. Simply to preach.

9/11 might have woken them up, but their vision of the future is beyond bleak. And sorry to say, all they care about is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Their great nation. They are totally xenophobic. This has nothing to do with full spectrum liberty for all humankind. It is liberty for Americans only. I don't think anyone participating at BFN would endorse that. I was going to watch the whole of that video to be sure I hadn't got the message of Phelps and his Followers wrong, but at nearly 2 hours long, and having just about got them out of my system, I don't care to waste my time. Hope this explains my reaction a bit more. And I'll also blame it on tiredness and paint fumes Confused

By the way, the quality of the conference you guys had was excellent. If that was done with Skype, then what an asset for future such meetings. And I think you had just the right number of people, with very little talking over one another, which is quite a feat. Well done!
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Ozregeneration



Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 484
Location: Big Island Down Under

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, great chat, enjoyable listening.

I think that this ‘new’ thinking which has been brought up in the last couple of weeks on the forum has basically been ‘brewing’ around the world for some time. Collective conscious if you like. I basically believe that what ever comes of this can begin straight away alongside the existing set up.

Based on what was said in the chat, I’d like to add a few comments. Note that some of the quotes may be taken out of context and I may have referenced the incorrect person, but I‘ve done the best I can. Surprised)

Quote:
Ormond: “Global Networking”

What I see that has happened is that as we have been conditioned to isolate ourselves, and withdrawn from society due to all sorts of reasons, fears, me first (out there, me first, as opposed to in here, me first), etc, we do still have an inner connection with people which has been channelled into the internet through email, forums, blogs, etc. this has fulfilled our deep desire to connect with people.
Quote:

DaftAida: “Diffusion of groups to counter ‘them’


I too used to be of that mindset when I first read ‘Leaderless Resistance’, which had me fear what ‘they’ could do. But I guess I’ve since moved to a less fearful perspective. I now see the diffusion of groups as being a positive just for the simple reason that it enables people to be consciously involved with creating there own reality. From there, endless possibilities will spring forth.

Quote:
?Navari: “Low moral integrity”


I’m a bit unsure about this aspect but I would suggest that those with ‘low moral integrity’ could not ever comprehend what is being discussed here and would be ‘dealt with’ by the old system. I could suggest other things ( but then I’D be seen beyond this group) but I’ll keep it simple and go with the old system for now.

Quote:
?Navari: “Inviting people to explain the culture they are in”


To throw down a well worn term, Just do it. What I mean is just do what you want to do. I don’t necessarily think there is a need to consciously spread the message, people will naturally be attracted to it.

Quote:
JeffS: “To be that change. Let universe figure out the details”


Agree 100%. I think we need to be careful not to become too analytical about this whole process. I agree with Dale (if I understand what she was saying about the sexes) in that we need to acknowledge and respond to our intuition more. Like I mentioned in a thread somewhere, it’s the difference between command and control. Command is the mindset we need to be in.

Quote:
RedMahna: “The mum and pop store is what has been hurt”


I understand `what you are saying here and I see it myself in my own neighbourhood. But maybe that also needs to be looked at. Is the ‘corner store’ just an old, old idea that was pertinent to yesteryear? We have markets, the internet, large stores, I don’t know what the answer is but I am sure people will work it out.

Quote:
DaftAida: “We don’t need the money system”


I’ve heard this aspect many a time particularly after exploring the commercial law field. The conclusion I have come to is that basically it is a massive thing to overcome and that the best course of action would be to work around it. Use barter, use your own money system. Whatever, but don’t make it an issue. I agree with Ormond, I think the biggest problem is using credit that can’t be serviced. We can go down a whole different path if we concentrate on the ‘bank providing credit’ aspect so keep it simple, minimise debt.

Quote:
Matt: “You can just step aside and do your own thing”


While I’d agree that what you are saying is true, in practice it isn’t always that way. When you have a wife who doesn’t back you 100% what you are doing then you are often fighting against many aspects that the singles don’t have to address. This may contradict other things I have posted, but hey, what do they say, the best book you can write is one you need yourself.

Quote:
Fintan: “Community exchange is not a taxable activity”


This is always one area that the government will always be looking to stick its nose in to. It will be up to the individual to explore how they can achieve it.
Quote:

JeffS: “Community supported agriculture program”


I saw this when I lived in FNQ ( Far North Queensland). I think it is something that can easily be carried out in smaller communities. The reason being is that generally they would be the only choice. But also there is that greater community spirit and affinity with the people you are interacting with.

Quote:
Navari: “Case studies”


I think many of these are already out there. It’s just that this group (in general) hasn’t tapped into them.

Quote:
JeffS: “…great things happen to the benefit of all when we share like that”


I think this must be some instinctual thing that goes way back. The sharing of ideas/knowledge is something that we all share and it’s only the matter of how far the negative ‘other’ has managed to suppress this.

Quote:
Fintan: “You do what you can do at what ever level you are at”


Critical. Critical. If the student is not ready, the master will not be there.

Quote:
Matt: “People see what you are doing. They like the look of it, they copy it and pick it up.”


Quote:
“…you have one mind creating, another mind creating, another mind creating, and all of these minds then basing their creations on each other’s creations. Then you have a reality that is flowing, that is shifting, is growing, is altering. Some would call this mass consciousness. To a degree they would be accurate but they wouldn’t be entirely accurate. For it is more than simply mass consciousness, it is the very fabric of reality. On the basis of that fabric, you create your reality.”

http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15420#15420


Quote:
Ormond: “Quit using gratuitous credit spending”


Agree 100%. And that includes the mortgages on houses as well. I can’t believe the amount of debt people are prepared to get in to. Any wonder they see their lives as consisting solely on servicing a debt.

High debt = no free time = no leisure time = no thinking time

Quote:
Fintan: “The political structure has become irrelevant in peoples lives, because they are turning away from politicians and they frankly couldn’t give a shit”


Oh, I wish it were so. I really think it is still only a very small percentage that think this way. A growing percentage yes, but still only small. There is still the majority belief that left and right, liberal and conservative, actually means something. But that’s alright. It may take a while for the majority to understand, but it will happen.

Quote:
Matt: “I don’t vote for these shmucks”


I like the boy.
Quote:

Matt: “Alex Jones can kiss my arse”

Very Happy

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RedMahna



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1512
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To quote you, Oz, who has referenced some quotes himself very neatly,
Quote:
I think this must be some instinctual thing that goes way back. The sharing of ideas/knowledge is something that we all share and it’s only the matter of how far the negative ‘other’ has managed to suppress this.


This, I believe, is the beauty of mankind.
And all of our combined efforts, in and out of BFN, that has positive substance, can be - at the very least - shared. (The very least is also the very most at the same time, in many ways.)

Can you imagine this kind of service being productive? Of course! It's always been there - only, as you've stated, "suppressed" whenever it can be suppressed.

Churches: Asks for financial support in exchange for their message
Politicians: Demands a salary, then additional big-bucks, to supply a service to its constituents (which turns out to be crappy service)
Private schools and Universities: Puts you into a deficit before you turn 21 years old

These above are the leading sources of service to people. What the fuck?
That's completely opposite of sharing. (Especially Churches, since the bottom line is supposed to be sharing, duh!)

Ok, not trying to be ignorant and imply the above 3 could run completely without money, but I'm just making a basic point about "sharing" and "service."

The good news is (much to the above 3's disappointment), that we ARE beginning to see the value of sharing & service. Holy shit!
I just finished listening back the audio, and the underlying values are the same, regardless of various ideas - not so various in the end.

Please, I'm also taking this all in, and developing, and re-directing my psyche... I'm learning to work together with you all. So thanks for putting up with quite a bit of my shit sometimes.

Red

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navari
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozregeneration wrote:
Firstly, great chat, enjoyable listening.
Quote:
Matt: “People see what you are doing. They like the look of it, they
copy it and pick it up.”

Quote:
“…you have one mind creating, another mind creating, another
mind creating, and all of these minds then basing their creations on each
other’s creations. Then you have a reality that is flowing, that is shifting, is
growing, is altering. Some would call this mass consciousness. To a degree
they would be accurate but they wouldn’t be entirely accurate. For it is
more than simply mass consciousness, it is the very fabric of reality. On
the basis of that fabric, you create your reality.”


http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15420#15420

Yes...Yes....Yes. I believe one of the major goals of FSL is simply to
facilitate and kick off this process of "one mind creating, another mind
creating, another mind creating, and all of these minds then basing their
creations on each other’s creations."

This is a process, a means, not an end. One of my favorite quotes is
from Ghandi, "The means are the ends in the making." Just starting
this process, facilitating it amongst folks, is a big win.

I think it was JeffS who said all we have to do is provide the vision and
let the universe figure out how to get us from point A to point B. While
I completely agree with this I also wonder if our job is to simply facilitate
the vision process - just allow people to open their minds to this kind of
thinking, and great things will happen - this process will virally spread
and folks will leverage the great thinking of others, as referenced in the
quote above.

FSL is in our minds. We win and begin to set our own course when we
simply shed the limits on our thinking and allow ourselves to create
a vision that is appealing to us and not established by someone else -
possibly for ulterior motives.

Am I way off base here?
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Nat



Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 840
Location: minime-rica

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Navari wrote:
FSL is in our minds. We win and begin to set our own course when we
simply shed the limits on our thinking and allow ourselves to create
a vision that is appealing to us and not established by someone else -
possibly for ulterior motives.

Am I way off base here?

i think you're right on the money Navari, like with any of the other messes there are, one of the single most impotant things is to be able to step above it all and get the broadest possible view, and to not be too quick to reach for the shovel and start digging - limitless thinking is most important, only with that can you step through the barriers placed there by others, as you suggest, most often those barriers are not for good reasons

Oz wrote:
matt wrote:
“You can just step aside and do your own thing”



While I’d agree that what you are saying is true, in practice it isn’t always that way. When you have a wife who doesn’t back you 100% what you are doing then you are often fighting against many aspects that the singles don’t have to address. This may contradict other things I have posted, but hey, what do they say, the best book you can write is one you need yourself

i hear ya dude, that's the whole tricky problem, and it raises a pertinent issue...i'm single, and am not a conventional catch, sure in the kind of world we hope to live in i have much to offer (i hope), [mainly jokingly maudlin]but in the moneymoneymoney world i'm a piss poor prospect, any relationship (which may result in my having a wife [my equal] who may or may not back what i was doing, such as you describe), would be by necessity one based on my not having the nice house and the right car (at least until i meet, and fight off the five or so serial killers i'd be statistically likely to meet before i win the lotto, and then win it)...what with the world being so money orientated, it's hard to find, or even have belief that you will find, someone who values true value in a person before financial value

therein lies the paradox, i can just do whatever because the world as it stands dictates that my 'omega man' existance, one pre disposed to extinction, can do all kinds of crazy and creative shit without the wife moaning that "stuff costs money", but some days it's hard to see the worth in doing so...my bonds of apathy can seem as solid as your bonds of wedlock[/mainly jokingly maudlin]Wink

Oz wrote:
matt wrote:
I don’t vote for these shmucks”

I like the boy.

matt wrote:
Alex Jones can kiss my arse

this is what's wrong with giving certain people a chance to speak Wink ...not just aj himself, but all those who would have Ormond, myself or others jumping under the sofa and listening out for the black helicopter's roar reverberating off the roof above us

as for the voting, it really does feel like time to put that damn "ok we admit it, you would vote and we know it, but we just say you're an apathetic non voter - for shame !...so tick this box if you don't think any of the other options will do what they said/promised before being elected" option in - i can't see the political organisers going for that actual version, but something that clearly states NONE OF THE ABOVE would most likely get my vote

otherwise elected officials have no more democratic legitimacy or mandate than your local megalo-mart - not making a purchase can be for more reasons than being too lazy to drive to the store

and to extend the analogy, simply being in a state of starvation is not enough to make me liable to eat blocks of polystyrene foam, simply so i can say to myself "at least i ate something"

as DaftAida said, not voting is also a choice, but this rejection of the options must be registered as such, it must be noted officially
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Nat



Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 840
Location: minime-rica

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilbert_g wrote:
Quote:
People don't need governments.


I don't know that that's true. Didn't people choose to create govts? At least local govts? I think we created positions of public responsibility and oversight. Management. I think we did that for certain sound reasons, and I think if we suddenly devolved to some kind of cashless anarchist community we would STILL wind up creating these positions of public or group responsibility.

excellent points in an excellent post, Gary - i think Kier was meaning in the broad sense that government has extended in to far too many avenues of our lives in which it simply should not...that when government creates situations in order to remedy them, that is where 'people don't need government'

i understand your point about the willing creation of government by the people, but it is the tendancy for government to spread, to become a hungry cancer that's the the issue

the difficult balance is to maintain government as line of defence of society/community, rather than allowing it to become the community by proxy, leaving the community vicariously existing in a manner dependent upon its government...which eventually becomes a system of subsvervience
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Nat



Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 840
Location: minime-rica

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would like to add...

the first input from me on the audio was very spontaneous, and it probably showed Wink ...but what i should have mentioned and neglected to do so, was that the majority of people in the UK are very much one people, without racial distinction, and don't put being respectful as you pass in the street down to a platitude, it is not, nearly everyone is living a fractured life at the present time, and 'on street' respect is all most people seem to desire from others, and to the best of my knowledge, that is what they get, the idea that everyone in this country is sold on the 'Islamofascism' bullshit is purely one constructed on the tv, and in the main newspapers - it does not represent the fact that most of us are pleased to live in a place where the world is literally a very small place

and this still, despite the highly suspicious terrorism let loose on London on 7th july 2005, for which there is still no clear evidence that the alleged are guilty...if you think that's wrong, and the government should release its evidence, in the country with more cctv than anywhere else, if you have a problem with the most filmed city in the world not providing convincing proof that the alleged were responsible, and if you are a UK resident, please sign the J7 release the evidence petition website: http://z13.invisionfree.com/julyseventh

turn on your tv set however, and you might think something different...you might think that this country is at war with itself and its previously welcome diversity, it's an artificial construct, not reality...unless you count your tv as reality Shocked

we just get on with things and get along...there are still anachronisms, but most of them think an anachronism is an expensive brand of watch


and in follow up to my comment toward the end that (to paraphrase myself):"they will not pull the martial law thing" - the reason i believe they would not pull that particular stunt, is that it WOULD be the end of them, it WOULD be a final declaration of war by the very few upon the many, and even assuming all these AI robotic armies in these 'leaked' documents come to fruition, i still don't see 'the few' being victorious, robot armies or not, and anyway, would 'the few' wish to become the sort of artificial, comuterised beings that they would have to, in order to survive the kind of armageddon they would need to unleash in order to win a final war between the global village many, and the priviledged few ?

in my opinion, the kind of action necessary to complete the global nazi world order, is exactly the sort of action that would take all the evidence of their priviledge away from them

perhaps wrong, possibly naive, but it does me for now
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FaxMam



Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrow

Last edited by FaxMam on Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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will



Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am new to the forum. I have listened to both the Naravi interview and the superceding program discussion on the topic.

This type of dialog is key to the process of community, and it is my understanding that that is essential the equation that is being addressing.

Separate and aside from the "rules" of a particular "community" game (style of governace), are the fundamental "capabilities" and "tools" upon which those rules reside. In this case, and in my judgment the fundmental tools find their roots in two areas: 1) the "division of labor" dynamic and 2) "know-how". As "know-how" evolves the "division of labor" construct is re-configured. In our times this process occurs constantly - in many many little ways. When a "new tool" is conceived and applied - old workers are laid off, jobs are rethought, new types of workers iare created and a new order emerges.

My point here is that addressing the concept of "full spectrum liberty" requires one to reach beyond and behind the practices of current operating governments - looking to those fundamental tools that are available and can be applied to the concept of human community.
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DaftAida



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:02 am    Post subject: Matt was right! Reply with quote

The name DatAida is a 'take' on Darth Veda and is supposed to be pronounced that way - kind of having a laugh at the expense of darkness.

Anyway, great to chat with you guys and I haven't listened to the tape as yet .... I'm not going to sit here and defend Vatican Assassins firstly because it's not my work and secondly because I don't have time. I assume that anyone criticising the validity of the work has read 700 pages of it. All I can say with certitude is that, for me, it looped together a lot of queries and missing links in my extensive research. Also, I guess it all depends where you're coming from and sad to say, much of my formative life was heavily influenced by a horrible Roman Catholic upbringing, so I resonate deeply with this work from experience. Stuff does not happen randomly; all has a meaning, reason and purpose. Some are content to stop at the CIA or Zionism. Fine, if that's as far as you wanna go. I'm one of these girls who 'goes all the way' and I can say that I've been just about everywhere! No criticism intented of anyone else's comfort zone of reality.

For UK people, you might be interested in something I'm exploring called Local Works www.localworks.org who have been striving to push through The Sustainable Communties Bill despite Ruth Kelly's obstructive actions.
This appears to be an example of how flipping the lid from top down control to bottom up power is gaining momentum. So, the people drive the local council which drives Government.

Catch up with you all soon.

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RedMahna



Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1512
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For UK people, you might be interested in something I'm exploring called Local Works www.localworks.org who have been striving to push through The Sustainable Communties Bill despite Ruth Kelly's obstructive actions.
This appears to be an example of how flipping the lid from top down control to bottom up power is gaining momentum. So, the people drive the local council which drives Government.


Hey Daft,
Like I said, not all of us are interested in government (cos we hate it?) enough to participate, even on a local level. But ignoring it won't make it go away. Thanks for pointing out something pro-active (i hate that fucking corporate word, but you know what i mean).

You go, girl! (Girls rock, dammit!!!!)
Red

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DaftAida



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:56 am    Post subject: Yeah Red Mahna, Me too! Reply with quote

But this is about sustainable communities and whilst I too deplore any involvement with le system I do believe that individuals can and must work together in setting both the standards and pace of their communities and protecting those communities from The State; whether that be the implementation of ID Cards or the diminishing of individual traders' shops and services through multinational heavyweights' influencing national/local policy. Maybe this kind of place is where we can connect with others of like mind. No man is an island, Red!
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