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truthseeker



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 177
Location: NW U.S.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the book on order. Thanks for the good discussion of it.
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elbowdeep



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 395

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

navari wrote:
So I'll certainly read it with a discerning eye. Hopefully, like FSL, some new ideas will come from it Smile


Exactly...! If anything, you will see how these scoundrels think. The level of premonition in this book is astounding... After each page, I have to keep telling myself that THESE PEOPLE WROTE THIS BOOK IN A PRE-9/11 WORLD. How they could see the direction of the world BACK THEN is stunning... unless they are on the inside.

After reviewing a chapter that caught my eye once again, titled "The commercialization of Sovereignty"... got me thinkin... I think this will be the thing to watch for in the near future, as scam artists spring-up, selling their piece of "Shangri-La".

truthseeker wrote:
I have the book on order. Thanks for the good discussion of it.


Fantastic... ! I look forward to discussing the ideas the book puts forward! Fake or not, it should get everyone thinking... Cool

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Ormond



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 1556
Location: Belly of the Beast, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As if the 20th Century wasn't plain enough for us, this decade's unmasking of how our civilization is really run and for what has given the game away in this decade. (already. And theirs still 93 years left of 21st century...)

Quote:
Pathocracy is based on an observation of Kurt Vonnegut:
“people without a conscience rise through the ranks very quickly.” This has been demonstrated in Game Theory, especially the Prisoner’s Dilemma game which all college students are subjected to: in dominator heirarchies, the best strategy really is to fuck over your fellow man. Psychologists from a number of disciplines—Transpersonal, Behavioral, and Gesalt—all made note during the 60s that violent and paranoid people tended to dictate the terms of everyone elses lives at every level. As Stephen Heller notes in “Monsters and Magical Sticks”:


Quote:
So the concern, the interaction between these two words, is that
our cultures are designed for evil people to get ahead, and they do. This would mean that Adolf Hitler, Idi Amin and George Bush are not anomalies, they are design features. The best part about this --- aside from the soul-crushing realization nothing will probably ever change about the human condition --- is that it’s not “just because” determinism.
If all this warfare, depression and violence is the result of how our culture is designed, then that means we can start to end warfare, depression and violence by designing better cultures.

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Hocus Locus



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 850
Location: Lost in anamnesis, cannot forget my way out

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

urbanspaceman wrote:
(on the "Biology" thread, please forgive the cross-post)

I've said elsewhere on the forum that I thought the structure of FSL should resemble a healthy human body. I'm sure some people thought, "what the fuck is he talking about?", and I don't blame them, because it's a hard point to make quickly in a few words. But the basic idea is that there are already clues in nature that tell us what structure we should be moving toward when trying to formulate FSL (to paraphrase Navari, a structure that contains the most liberty for all that no one individual or group could negatively impact). This theory doesn't give us specific answers, but it gives us some guidelines.

Well in terms of FSL (Full Spectrum Liberty -- got to avoid the tendency to abbreviate always for anything worthy of consideration there are people doing Internet searches for it) -- I have not weighed in much, though I have been following the amazing threads of BFN luminaries. I'm more of an original aspect-man, who feeds off the talking points of others and takes aspects off to some hopefully obvious but at times oblivious conclusion, hopefully with merit. Then the luminaries press on.

In the war for American Independence I'd have been one of those who, after all the ruckus was over went back to farming and not into Government. But with an ever wary eye on it.

The sentiments as-expressed at BFN run the gamut from Troll to Trotsky... but the trend in terms of desire has been towards that of the humanist -- quite a lotsky. All to the bestsky. Have a brewski. All in all these postings collectively exceed the quality of any garden-variety stealth textbook -- the kind a professor would hit students with at the graduate level, to shake them up and remind them that knowledge is a tool for creating opportunities and possibilities, and when they escape the classroom it's time to get out there and do stuff, not just know stuff.

Quite precious, actually.

urbanspaceman, as a talking point on 'duality', wrote:
- The NWO wants a world government, so we should flip that and have only local government.

But then again, Pol Pot had a 'local government', one about as un-Ayn Randian as has ever been seen on this planet, And there is only one shrine that has ever done justice to him.

Orwell 'covered' world government and its ultimate evil, only really evil if one refuses to accept the terminte mound as the ultimate collective objective of mankind. I do refuse. Termite mounds are impressive structures, but they'll never achieve escape velocity and orbit in any real sense. Orwell provides the best-fit solution for termites cursed with brains, some eggs must be broken. Eventually over time, no eggs need be broken, merely retasked. Though his vision chafes in 1984 because modern novel readers, probably even in Russia, cannot so easily grok the historical backdrop.

All these BFN people dig out these fantastic things. And all I have to offer is The Time Machine by H. G. Wells (full text).

When I look at 9/11 I see most clearly the emergence of a straight Morlock and Eloi scenario. That is where it is leading, all-too-directly. With a bit of Olaf Stapledon intrigue along the way. Read To The End Of Time for an incredible ride; but I suggest you only read it during the daytime to avoid depression and nightmares of human ineffectual-ness.

The whole idea of overclass and underclass -- where the overclass know the real score and do the steering, make up the news and 'fake politics', and the underclass have ready access to a nice comfortable explanation of things that does not tax their silly brains too much.

Now it all begins with this kind of dualistic intrigue, perhaps thousands of years of it. It's complex, it's daunting, at any given juncture those vested in the base concept -- the idea that mankind is two peoples, one with a clue and one without. False flag events, fake politics are inevitable, to keep everyone busy. Eventually (as in Wells' story) technology has smoothed everything over, the machines fix themselves and everyone gets down to the simple utopian dream of just living.

Living as fruit-eaters (the underclass) and as cannibals (the over). That the Wells' story, The Time Machine, swaps their actual earthly positions, Morlocks below, is funny and yet practical. Fruit-eaters need their fruit and fruit is grown in sunlight. Cannibals may as well be underground. Because, as my father says, "The human body happens to contain everything a body needs." Does a body good. An incredibly funny and wise man is my father.

I like best the 1960 cinema adaptation of Wells' work, The Time Machine [1960]. Because in that there is this macabre reminder that is more to the point I'm making than the original novel: in the novel, when it is time for harvest -- Eloi fall into deep slumber from the food so graciously provided them.

In the movie, every now and again a signal is raised -- an actual air raid siren! And everyone dutifully, hypnotically, marches through the door of the Sphinx and when the harvest's quota is achieved the steel doors close, barring the rest from entering.

That is the way it is done in today's world too. Funny thing that.

The rest having no knowledge of the fate of those inside, and no need to know. It's all about National Security after all. They go back to the arduously idle task of just-living.

It comes down to the fight against cannibalism, pure and simple! This whole struggle for transparency of 9/11.

Our 'betters' who know the whole score, know every little mistake made on 9/11 that they're not telling, including the little mistake that perhaps (one can hope) it might not have been such a good idea after all... must be too full of themselves to see it as simply as I do. Because they have children too.

Eventually there will be no secrets to keep. And the long descendants of those who had kept the secrets will suffer the same erosion as the populace they are being kept from. Once complete sheep-hypnosis is achieved, the wolf need not hunt. Eventually still, we reach a time when clever wolves of the distant past did invent great machines to rend the sheep, so no wolf needs teeth. And it all hums along so well. Brilliant!

This all manifests itself in 9/11. No originality of plot or intent implied here... but some of us need to work from a convenient milepost as a basis for day to day activism so as to keep from mucking with ancient history. Some things have angered me, but 9/11 really pissed me off, dig? And I say,

Fuck the Morlocks.

They should know better. My Eloi weapon of choice is the Constitution.

urbanspaceman, as a talking point on 'duality', wrote:
- Capitalism and big business is the NWO game, so we should flip that and have anti-capitalism and only small business.

To me 'capitalism' is not so bound up with the Corporation That Ate Manhattan. It is the basic precept of the entrepenur being able to steer the course of progress. Bartering economy none other than the use of capital sans currency. Ownership a separate topic, because unless ownership of something itself is of value, or someone takes exception with the way things are being done, ownership is moot.

Hurting people may not be as bad for (eventual) business as destroying the planet, you are only allocated one starter-planet, the rest need to be conquered... but a certain amount of short-term gain for what is seen as a long-term win. For example the 'First Age of Steam' is actually the Age of Coal -- leads smoothly to the best-fit tradeoff of our time: nuclear energy and the Second Age Of Steam. Something I'd like to see Morlock and Eloi alike agree on.

And we cannot do that without corporate interest and involvement.

urbanspaceman, as a talking point on 'duality', wrote:
- Money can be turned into a fiat currency, so we should flip that and eliminate money.
- The NWO wants to tax us at every level, so we should flip that and eliminate tax.

In deference to Aaron Russo's nice think-bite Freedom to Fascism [2006] -- I think we must give serious thought to apportioned versus unapportioned taxation, without heading down the counterproductive road of vilifying taxation itself.

In the Constitution they made a really good effort to draw a line, this business of apportionment. To the point where I believe it really cannot (in terms of theory) get any simpler. But transparecy is neccessary for accountability, without which apportionment becoems a money shell-game. And once 'money' form 'taxation' leaves the 'country', the shell game becomes unwinable. That is why it happens, there are always places in the world where the corporate veil is a full Burka.

Still waiting to hear the other shoe drop on that missing trillion the Pentagon misplaced. Actually I think we might be barefoot already.

urbanspaceman, as a talking point on 'duality', wrote:
- Having leaders and bosses turns us into dependents, so we should flip that and every person should lead themselves. (in other words, get rid of hierarchies).

I look around and see only bossy leaders. And I see no bosses who can really lead... only people who choose to follow bad bosses, bossy bosses who are taking the Morlock path. Bullies is all. Hocus Locus rambling screed warning, beyond here thar be dragins.

Sorry to peter out like this. Whenever I go off about cannibalism it really wears me out. Must mean be missing a certain supplement in my diet.

___
Nothing is as simple as simplicity itself. Let's try to keep it that way.
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Ormond



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
urbanspaceman, as a talking point on 'duality', wrote:
- Having leaders and bosses turns us into dependents, so we should flip that and every person should lead themselves. (in other words, get rid of hierarchies).

Hocus:
I look around and see only bossy leaders. And I see no bosses who can really lead... only people who choose to follow bad bosses, bossy bosses who are taking the Morlock path. Bullies is all.


It all really does go back to the schoolyard, the earliest memory of being whacked from behind by a bully.

Primal cultures, before 'Civilization', had hierarchy, though theres were natural. My personal contact with Tewa indians in north New Mexico showed me that human society can be balanced and in harmony not just with 'self and others' but integrated with Nature too. The simple key is accepting that our species is part of the natural.
Primal cultures recognized the aberrant person in their midst. Tribal mindset is a sense of each being part of the whole. It never occurred to them to covet, 'own' in the sense we do, and above all to compete with nature. Malevolent psychopaths, 'Cain', were recognized immediately and they had ways to deal with them. "Law" as we know it was introduced before Hammurabi, though his codex is cited for it's clarity. Tribal humanity went by natural law, which was as Hocus said like a body healing itself of symptoms of imbalance. Hammurabi's codex usurped natural tribal 'law' and created LAW as man-made system, which gave the psychopath control. 'Our' law is based on revenge. aka 'Justice'. In Nature there are no such things as vengence or justice. Only harmony with the natural systems or disharmony.

The primal, tribal mind-set has been cultured out of us. Psychopaths conditioned us to believe their system is the only system. Once the tribe gave the creation and enforcement of 'law' to men, this unnatural system which favors the sociopath took root.

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Ta Seti



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Computers, Networking & something completely different Reply with quote

navari wrote:
In the spirit of FSL, think about the "opposite" of
Network-centric warfare?....

....or perhaps, how we can leverage NCW
for OUR benefit?


Yo navari,
Not entirely sure what you seeketh however ...
The first opposite that springs to mind is perhaps 'security through obscurity', i.e. that is to say NCW seeks to eliminate the ability to hide (become obscure) anywhere. In a way, NCW is similar to TIA (Total/Terrorist Information Awareness). Similarly, 'camouflage' is another word that springs to mind.

Regarding harnessing NCW for ourselves ...

I would have to ask 'what are the advantages of NCW and which ones might suit our needs?'

I see NCW as a Borg type machine where individual people and machine are networked as one in a hive-mind situation. You can have a squadron of planes and tanks and for e.g., if one plane 300 miles away picks up a foe on the radar, then they all see it (Borg style). This has numerous/endless tactical advantages.

To attempt to list them would be a mission by itself, very briefly - they can share equipment/ costs/ information/ TACTICS,.... a central HQ can deploy man and machine for maximum efficiency with minimal/reduced costs, avoiding duplication of effort and providing old equipment with a new lease of life. It makes for a much more coordinated fighting machine and significantly boosts effective fire power.

You effectively can provide an outdated war plane (etc) with a new lease of life by increasing its situational awareness and tactical decision making abilities - Suddenly an inferior craft become a match for a formerly superior one. The advantages really are endless.

All of this will be happening in real-time and with feedback and redeployment all capable in real-time.

It could also be considered if necessary, the disadvantages or even how to defeat such a system (e.g. a SWOT analysis - Strengths Weaknesses Opportunities Threats).

To stretch the analogy further, we are effectively considering the computer age, computer networking and their implementation. If you were to ask yourself how you could best make use of computer technology and in particular, the ability to network – you may well come to a similar conclussion on using the technology, i.e. to network all fighting vehicles, download all electronic data, centrally process and produce an instant battle plan.

Stretching the analogy to breaking point – we can apply the use of computers and networking to the application of a totalitarian regime and people management. For this you would want maximum data about people in real time (e.g. inc. ID card monitoring), you could then produce access control on a person by person basis, depending how satisfactory their performance was.

Perhaps if you elaborate on why you see it as potentially useful I might be able to be more specific.


elbowdeep
As busy as you are I'm glad you stopped by, even if only to have a read, I suspect this thread and Full Spectrum Liberty are going to be around and gain in strength for the foreseeable future so please continue to have a read when you are able, to think upon things and even to add a comment or two if you find you have time.

We are hoping to produce a summary with links to Audio and book recommendations, URLs etc which will be useful for keeping track, as the project grows. I know that I for one would certainly find this useful and it should be useful for busier people such as yourself.

When you say “ignore the man”, I might translate that a either "don't feed the trolls" or my personal favourite "Don't play their game!" The game is rigged, they set the rules and they do the refereeing. In a way this brings us back to Buckminster Fuller's 'create your own reality' (his exact quote escapes me for now). Another would be Gandhi's "Be the change you want to see".

I think FSL has found a common seed among us and we are watching it take root - It is a curious thing to see so many different angles on such a persistent theme. It is both curious and fascinating as to how so many people recognise what we have here, yet we all have our own unique summations and points of reference.

Hocus Locus
I'm still familiarising myself with the Forum and who has what to say but have noticed your contributions along with many others. We are a community as such and all have different pieces of the puzzle to bring to the table - it takes all kinds to make a world.

I'm sure there are also plenty more philosophers and thinkers out there who I hope will appreciate the quality of debate we have to offer and the real potential for progress that is here. I hope that people, regardless of what talents they may have, will feel able to bring their own magic with them so as we can reclaim our lives and our planet from the ever shrinking nwo.

I do feel we are on the cusp of a new understanding here, similar to what Buckminster Fuller spoke of with his desire to work in harmony with nature and that in his so doing, nature would thus render up many of its secrets to him. - There is much to be discovered!

When you say "... the structure of FSL should resemble a healthy human body. " I instantly think of Plato and his 'Republic'. Incidentally, I've long thought that his 2,500 yr old 'Analogy of a Cave' bares a striking resemblance to an analogy of the matrix. Indeed we are attempting to listen to nature to find our way and in more ways than one, this bridges with Fintan's more ethereal TreeIncarnation work on the nature of reality and the science of meaning. So, well done to Fintan for providing such a ripe environment.

Praises aside, we have much still to do Smile




"A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledgehammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic."

... Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself."
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eggsrgood



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:24 am    Post subject: Change the underlying structure Reply with quote

Wow is all I can say. I have yet to read through the posts here but have just listened the recording.

Currently I'm reading a book about the nature of time and it relates to the Mayan calender. I believe that in order to focus on a totally new paradigm a change in the structure is needed. This may have already been discussed but to quote the book Time and the Technosphere :

"Air is the atmosphere of the body, Time is the atmosphere of the mind."

Now, if you control time then you control what manifests through the minds of civilisation. It would be quite radical to change the linear calender that we currently run on but you have to question why the Gregorian calender was enforced with such violence. It was obviously the plan to take us away from the natural frequency of time of 13:20 to the now artificial time of 12:60.

It is inevitable for the artificial structure to crumble under the power of nature eventually but I think in order for a totally new paradigm to evolve you really have to look at the founding structure of our society. Time is the center point from where all activity currently emanates from, and therefore the creation of such chaos.

Change back the calender to evolve with nature rather than against and the rest will naturally flow instead of the insane notion that we have power over instead of power with.

Government literally means Mind Control so a new paradigm would involve no form of government and will inevitably involve unity consciousness.

If you haven't already read The Handbook for the New Paradigm I strongly recommend you do. It explains The Secret at a much deeper level. You can grab it here for free.

http://www.NoMoreHoaxes.com/shop/download/handbook.pdf

I'm so glad that there are people out there focusing on creating a new future instead of being paralyzed by all the fear propaganda because ultimately fear is what they feed on. Without fear and they will starve.
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Hocus Locus



Joined: 22 Sep 2006
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Location: Lost in anamnesis, cannot forget my way out

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings Tau Seti,

Ta Seti wrote:
Hocus Locus
I'm still familiarising myself with the Forum and who has what to say but have noticed your contributions along with many others. We are a community as such and all have different pieces of the puzzle to bring to the table - it takes all kinds to make a world.

I'm sure there are also plenty more philosophers and thinkers out there who I hope will appreciate the quality of debate we have to offer and the real potential for progress that is here. I hope that people, regardless of what talents they may have, will feel able to bring their own magic with them so as we can reclaim our lives and our planet from the ever shrinking nwo.

I do feel we are on the cusp of a new understanding here, similar to what Buckminster Fuller spoke of with his desire to work in harmony with nature and that in his so doing, nature would thus render up many of its secrets to him. - There is much to be discovered!

When you say "... the structure of FSL should resemble a healthy human body. " I instantly think of Plato and his 'Republic'. Incidentally, I've long thought that his 2,500 yr old 'Analogy of a Cave' bares a striking resemblance to an analogy of the matrix. Indeed we are attempting to listen to nature to find our way and in more ways than one, this bridges with Fintan's more ethereal TreeIncarnation work on the nature of reality and the science of meaning. So, well done to Fintan for providing such a ripe environment.

Praises aside, we have much still to do :)

Hey, no fair! I didn't say that, urbanspaceman did. That's why I put it in a pink box with "urbanspaceman wrote" at the top. Nice to be noticed though.

When I read "It takes all kinds to make a world." in the attention-commanding 'first paragraph' after being directly addressed... it brings to mind the odd notion that I have never heard that phrase used in a complimentary manner... while it never seems too directly uncomplimentary. And noting that elbowdeep has also done a fair amount of writing here on the subject, I wonder if he might like to have his greeting swapped out for another too.

I tried to catch the rest of your drift... but you seemed to be addressing everyone and I'd rather not interrupt.

Plato obviously did finally escape his poignant vision on the vague subjective nature of meaning. We know this for certain because he described it in no uncertain terms -- and his allegory did not reveal itself to us as desparate writing on the wall of a cave with a lonely skeleton nearby. So take heart -- there is hope.

Outside the rectilinear confines of the little pink box... so like Plato's cave, in which one sees words but only fleeting shadows of souls -- you will see what *I* had written. It goes on for quite a piece and has cannibalism in it. And allegory and stuff.

Surely any tome on Full Spectrum Liberty should devote at least a full chapter to freedom from being eaten. Without one's consent I mean.

___
I try to avoid being eaten at least three times a day.
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DrewTerry
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Change the underlying structure Reply with quote

eggsrgood wrote:
Wow is all I can say. I have yet to read through the posts here but have just listened the recording.

Currently I'm reading a book about the nature of time and it relates to the Mayan calender. I believe that in order to focus on a totally new paradigm a change in the structure is needed. This may have already been discussed but to quote the book Time and the Technosphere :

"Air is the atmosphere of the body, Time is the atmosphere of the mind."

Now, if you control time then you control what manifests through the minds of civilisation. It would be quite radical to change the linear calender that we currently run on but you have to question why the Gregorian calender was enforced with such violence. It was obviously the plan to take us away from the natural frequency of time of 13:20 to the now artificial time of 12:60.

It is inevitable for the artificial structure to crumble under the power of nature eventually but I think in order for a totally new paradigm to evolve you really have to look at the founding structure of our society. Time is the center point from where all activity currently emanates from, and therefore the creation of such chaos.
......
I'm so glad that there are people out there focusing on creating a new future instead of being paralyzed by all the fear propaganda because ultimately fear is what they feed on. Without fear and they will starve.

Congratulations on your open mind and willingness to consider ideas such as the Mayan calendar...unfortunately, anything by Arguelles, John Major Jenkins and others that perpetuate the myth of 2012, galactic center, etc. are well-intentioned but ultimately entirely incorrect in their assumptions and conclusions.

I say this because I have read every single one of them.

The only book to read (and you will understand why when you read it) is "Solving the Greatest Mystery of our Time: The Mayan Calendar" by Dr. Carl Johann Calleman. See the thread on Transformation of Consciousness for more information about why this book is the one to read, as well as more information about why the others should be disregarded.

If you like Arguelles then you will be absolutely blown away by what Dr. Calleman has written. I guarantee it - so much so, that if you don't like the book I will buy it from you, no questions asked.

Dr. Calleman actually has written two books so far but I recommend this book first - it was the first book he wrote, has all of the detailed research and could easily be an academic textbook. His second book is good, but is difficult and frustrating without reading the first one first (this I know because I read the second one first - not recommended Laughing).

We are currently in the period known to the Mayans as the period when ETHICS overcomes POWER & CONTROL. I would say more but it is far too complicated and best if you read the book. It is based on science and math encoded into the pyramids and codices throughout the highlands of the Mayans in Guatemala. Dr. Calleman is Ph.D. Molecular Biologist and spent 8 years writing the book, based only on what he could prove, not what could be conjectured (as is the case with archeologists).

Ultimately, the choice is, of course, yours to read what you want and what you find meaningful to you. This is simply my way of helping you to save yourself some time, effort and tremendous frustration.

I have spent the last year literally studying this subject full time, so if you have any questions after reading the thread - please do not hesitate to ask. Very Happy


Last edited by DrewTerry on Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ta Seti



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Brighton, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

urbanspaceman & Hocus Locus
My humblest apologies to you both for mixing up your names. Some things simply defy explanation but I will have a rummage around for an excuse should you insist. Suffice it to say that I will have to live with the errata the rest of my life.

I'm still on something of a learning curve with Forums and style of presentation; Forums are not my usual habitat. I'm also conscious that although I may be replying to someone in particular, that all kinds of other folk will also be reading and that they too may wish to understand and perhaps join in, in which case I try to make it an opportunity for open debate. - It's a learning curve so feedback does have its effect.

Regarding "It takes all kinds to make a world.": Consider various crops, they are all differently suited for a range of climatic conditions, some wither and some prosper as conditions change. Consider for a moment if there were but one variety of barley which suddenly found itself unsustainable due to predation - that would be the end of all barley forever! By the way, this is the direction 'Genetically Modified Organisms' is taking us, with a major reduction in varieties.

As it stands, some barley probably favours warmer climates, some grow on mountains and some would thrive in low moisture conditions (I'm wildly guessing here - arable farming isn't my field). - ... Hence, if we suddenly run out of mountains, there are enough varieties elsewhere and some might have the ability to adapt to and colonise whatever remains.

Who or what can predict, other than perhaps ‘the fullness of time’, - as to who is the more valuable and who serves little or no purpose? Who can decide that a particular kind can be weeded out at no cost or penalty to those not weeded out? This comes down to a question of eugenics of which I do not approve (not only for practical purposes). It is interesting to note however that such decisions are regularly made in the farming community. I wonder if there is a single underlying philosophy (Unified Philosophy Theory) that can be applied to both, then again perhaps there already is - maybe they are already breeding/harvesting humans, -or- maybe farms are just plain wrong.

With regards to (a crop's) ability to thrive or prove beneficial - Similar can be said for Man: We all have our own preferences, dislikes, abilities and conditions that we find favourable. With reference to Plato's Republic, he discusses how a society (e.g. a city) has many requirements - A city requires shoemakers, cooks, house builders ... and so on. Plato draws frequently on the comparison with how various organs within the human body provide different functions necessary for the 'collective' human body.

Not that I'm agreeing Plato's version of a society is the ideal one. It is more a handbook for a despot than for a villager; it is about making a principality fit for a king. Plato places the requirements of a village/ town before the needs of the individual, which is great if you happen to own it but maybe not so great for the dwellers who must sacrifice their entire future for the collective good. I therefore see 'The Republic' as focussing on top-down management where people are shoe-horned into their respective roles, - slaves to the system - feed the machine.

No doubt others may have a different take on this and it may well be a good exercise to have a group discussion on its finer points and whether anything can be salvaged from it - in its favour (it has remained a long term classic), it does produce a viable/ maintainable system and is a good piece of philosophy with a quality approach to problem solving. Incidentally, Plato's book is available via my Web Site (‘NWO Books’ page) in text or audio format, along with Machiavelli's 'The Prince'.




"If a man speaks in a forest and his wife isn't there to hear him, - is he still wrong?"
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eggsrgood



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrewTerry,

Thanks for the recommendation. I have only really read the first 20 pages or so but most of the inspiration for the changing of the structural calender we now live with was from watching a long lecture by Calleman's partner Ian Lungold.

I will definitely take a look at the book. I just really agreed with Arguelles' concept of humanity living outside of natural time and although it is all part of the divine plan it is interesting to look at where all this madness manifested from.

When I saw the Underworlds and the planned progression of history my life made sense. It is just so obvious if you look at most of the ancient texts, live in the now. Anxiety and fear exist because we are either worrying about the future or regretful about the past. When ducks quabble they will simply flap there wings and move on. Humans will dwell over it and worry about what the other person is thinking or seek vengeance.

Anyway, a little of topic but you can see where i'm going with this. We definitely live out of the nature that we are part of. It is just pleasing to see sites like this one popping up with people trying not to be distracted by the chaos that is manifest and looking to create a new world.

The present is just a manifestation of the past and if we focus too much on what "The Family" is up to then we only give them power to create more.

I'll check out the book and ask any questions if they come up. Very Happy
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DrewTerry
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eggsrgood:

My belief is:

A calendar is our Currency Of Consciousness.


The Gregorian is a calendar of commerce.

We give power to what we pay attention. The only power we have is what we give away.

Ian Xel Lungold was brilliant and as much a part of the understanding that I have of Dr. Callemans scientific work as Calleman himself. I believe that Calleman provided the scientific basis for interpretation and Ian provided the spiritual interpretation of his science.

Unfortunately, Ian passed away on November 16, 2005.

By all means, get the book and let me know how you feel.

As with everything else in life, either it resonates with your inner self or it does not. Be well to your self.
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