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FSL: Developing Core Values
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navari
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:36 pm    Post subject: FSL: Developing Core Values Reply with quote

....Very quick post here just to kick-off a discussion in the area of Full
Spectrum Liberty (FSL).

During the audio program I had suggested first developing a list of core
values: (i) that describes FSL, and (ii) that can be utilized to frame any
concept that is developed under FSL.

I suggest that we utilize this thread to start brainstorming these prospective
core values. So, please feel free to suggest away...
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urbanspaceman



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Location: London , UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are my initial thoughts, Navari, post conference call....

competing in the world of ideas: obviously we can't counter Full Spectrum Dominance on the military front, that would suicidal and foolish, but can counter it in the world of ideas. This is not a battlefield, or a warfront, as the elite think of it. I suggest for us it should be a competition, a sport, and the world of ideas is the playing field. We can concentrate on speading positive Memes in this domain in order to counter the currently pervasive propaganda. The internet is the the main tool to get on the playing field (but certainly other forms of distribution are possible). We need not be shy to use the arts of persuasion (branding and advertising techniques) to compete. FSD uses information warfare as a first step in warmongering, so that is where FSL should compete aswell.

non-dualistic thinking: We should not get trapped in black and white thinking or solutions. Psy-ops try to drag us down into dualism, reducing everything to "us vs. them". Have you ever pondering the deeper meaning of "love thy enemy" in Christianity? It's not saying "make your enemies your friends", rather the deeper meaning is that you will have enemies and that you should treat them with compassion -- don't be out to destroy your enemies, but try to return them to some kind of moral health (one could argue this is the message of the redeemed Darth Vader character in Return of the Jedi, or the machines that cooperate with the humans in the last Matrix film). It's been helpful to me personally to think of the elite as moral children....I won't get sucked into their us vs. them games. Ultimately we are all the actions of one Supermind, including the elites...sometimes we take drastic measures and cut out the cancer....but wouldn't it be preferable to heal the body? We shouldn't be soft hippies here, we should still consider the elite dangerous (sometimes the mentally retarded ARE dangerous to themselves and others, but that doesn't mean you should kill them).

low centralization: It's hard to impact a system that has no single center. We can debate on the structure things might take, but my thesis with this is to look to the healthy human body for clues to forming a healthy society. Right now there is high centralization in government, which is only good for the elite....I'd compare this to people who believe that the individual conscious ego actually controls the human body. The human body has many levels, and each level has autonomy...and thank goodness, because it would be a hassle to have to think about digesting your food everyday, for example. So I'm thinking of the Federal level of government like a human ego. It has it's uses, and it does coordinate things and send intentions to the rest of the body, but it doesn not centrally control every part of the human being. I know some people advocate zero centralization, but to me that might be dualistic (centralization = bad, so zero centralization must be good). In my mind there should be just enough centralization to coordinate the other levels (state and local levels) but no more than that. With no centraliztion at all I'd be concerned that we would not have a global society, but only divided tribalism...certainly a collection of centers, or nodes, would work too.

creative orientation: This is the "New Thought" part of the values. We have the ability to co-create the world. The elites do not have absolute control of our destiny (that is a psyop that meant to diffuse our creative power). We must move our attitudes from the reactive-responsive orientation to the creative orientation. We are all artists. The first step in creating this amazing work of art called FSL is to have a passionate intention, as that is the first step to anything being manifested physically in this world.
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Ormond



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
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Location: Belly of the Beast, Texas

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been listening to the broadcast for a couple of plays. Just a note now for
a couple of good points said.

On locally growing food, Urbanspaceman suggested those who are or will be doing that will record results for case studies, there's a wealth of case studies on community 'open' gardening spaces available which can be gathered by one or two people, for distribution.

Austin Texas had set aside lots of unused city land made available for anyone to use. I saw these in action and they were abuzz with activity and very successful. Plus, when you have immigrants as I found at these city plots who grew up with subsistence farming such as Viet Nam, Mexico, and Central America, city bred participants who've never grown anything can learn more in one season from them than a pile of 'how to' books.

This kind of program also exists in certain cities and towns all over the US.
Case studies can be obtained from the local University's Agriculture department. I will see about obaining al the information I can from University of Texas and City of Austin about their program, and post what I find and reference urls. Southern Illinois University also has had the same program since at least the early 80's. and will have studies and records.

Keep in mind that attempts to restore pubic and individual self reliance within a post-industrial society is well traveled ground. 'back to the land', co-ops, barter, 'buy locally' were up and runnning during the 70's and 80's.
None of this is by any means 'dead', but it has been in steady decline since the 1990's. Too high a degree of reliance on the dominant economic system has been a force against it, since that's what the 'full spectrum dominance' does. Small farmers have been driven under by inflation and taxes. The rural midwest is a region where much has been tried at the local level and researching their studies for the 70's, 80's and 90's can yield information of things which have been tried which failed due to unexpected factors. Usually the culprit has been new Federal regulations and taxes that drive the small fry under while the corporate farming/chemical/pharma juggernauts benefit. Which is the racket.

Another factor in decline is that much of the pubic threw in the towel when so many attempts to recover self reliant alternatives didn't meet expectations of success or getting wider public traction.

This is where Jeff's suggestion of 'branding' has a 'spectrum Liberty' application:
Public perception has been at a 20 year low that alternatives to the Corporate can work. Terms like "co-op" and "alternative" now have negative connotations for many people who with some involvement in these approaches, and are now turned off to them. The terms, words, and former structures of past attempts with similar goals to full spectrum liberty may be best viewed as case studies of what to avoid as well as what worked, while avoiding appearance of imitation or identification with things the public has been trained to respond to as 'that's so 60's' or 'that's been done to death'.
.
"Is this any way to resurrect public enthusiasm to become self-reliant?"


Yesterday's discussion felt fresh. We're off to a good start, as this time theres no feeling that anyone is seeing it as going backward to recover the past.
Trends always move in cycles.
It feels that the cycle of apathy and submission to the Corporate government is reaching full circle.

It appears that global consciousness was going to happen whether anyone wanted it or not. It's inevitable in an age of so much change in motion. The think tanks foresaw that, and sought to deliberately control and shape it, build a global cage around it before world face to face cooperation and pluralist perceptions starts breaking out everywhere. No one can turn back the clock or stop that natural process.

I will also say,
It's not only what we think up and do that will restore liberty, but being able to see opportunities to restore liberty and as I think Jeff said, be like the grass filling up the cracks in the brittle old rigid system, where ever they occur.

Also, DaftAida said LAUGHTER is powerful and energetic. I agree with that.
Laughter is also the greatest WMD in the arsenal of the liberty.
"Whimsey of Mass Delight".
Control freaks hate it when the public is laughing. All these long faces we see in public makes them smile and smirk. Cameras and psycho-drama tv, news and movies are designed to prevent strangers from striking up friendly conversations in the checkout line. The Corporate hates spontaneous conversations and especially laughter.

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navari
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrying on one point from the Audio FSL thread:

navari wrote:
just0 wrote:
This turning the weapons industry of 'Killingry', into one of 'Livingry', reminds me of what Fintan
pointed out in the audio, he said that the medical profession as it stands makes a profit from sickness and by turning that on it's head we can force it
rely on making people healthy in order fro it to survive.

To zero in on one point - it seems that this notion of aligning
industries' profit motives with the motive of human kind
could certainly be
one of the core values associated with FSL.
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dokijo



Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: community supported agriculture Reply with quote

Community supported /sustainable agriculture is everywhere. See farm beginnings, community supported agriculture(CSA), bountiful gardens and fedco site groups, many programs in land stewardship and others. check them out- amazing amount of activity in play- you may be blissfully surprised.

land stewardship is a fun place:
http://www.thepodlounge.com.au/listfeed.php?feed=34810

A wonderful idea, and very popular already. The locally grown/organic food market is THE fastest growing market in the country. Note the presence of "organic" foods in walmart- trying to pony on


Values are: real food, real Green(good for soil, climate change, water table- ecosystem);
diverse plantings, biodiversity-bring back honeybees and critical components for pollination, Over 20Million acres of lawn requiring pesticides- if each person replanted a section of there lawn, climate will change for the better

real food, real health. Good for personal health(autism and adhd kids have allergies and need access to safer foods), when people dont even know what country their food came from, how can they know if the food is safe?
free range eggs and grass fed beef are actually cholesterol fighters, food in stores is grown for shelf life- vitamins are gone in most

real food, real connections. Builds relationships between grower and customers- Do you know your grower's first name? Many people now don't even know what country their grower is from and are no longer confortable with that.
Food is personal, plants and animals nourish us personally, it is a chance to be express gratitude within a relationship for what you have been given, and for what you have been allowed to provide someone.

Real food, real taste, fewer central nervous system killers- MSG asparateme in processed foods-it is becoming understood by wider audience(see Dr. Blaylocks books) other food reactions, ecoli- etc.
Real food tastes so much better, customers seek out real food sources.

Real food, real humanity. Kinder/gentler: to plants and animals and soil and farmers are allowed to make a living(vs the oil companies who charge them hideous $$ for petrochemicals and diesel). Free range, good non-animal based organic feed, no GMO, no mad cow risk...animals enjoy themselves, doing what animals and chickens were intended to do.. outside in the real sunshine.

real food, real jobs. growing fresh local jobs, keep money in community(money spent locally gets re-spent locally 18 times, money spent at chain store -goes to china, etc.)

real food, real ingenuity- we can solve global problems at the local level the old fashioned way- think, discuss and do

real food, real energy security, why send food 1300 miles with polluting petro resources and make the 5 huge foreign owned food distributors rich, when we could put the money and petrol to use rebuilding locally- (start where you are, washington will handle itself). The only other food distributor is walmart- do people really want to rely on that system?

real food, real simple, get back to nature, get back to basics, get off the consumer treadmill one tasty meal at a time.

(also- there is a book called Ecotopia has similar idea as fiction book mentioned- good place to look for info maybe
)
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Ormond



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Navari, I've been listening to your solo broadcast with Fintan again today.
(the more I think on the premise you've found the more worth pursuing it seems--everyone's been waiting for the fresh approach to reversing the control freak seven year binge--and this is the first fresh premise I've heard with handles on it).

REVERSING THE DAMAGE OF FREE TRADE, NAFTA, CAFTA: (outsourcing and 'insourcing')

You mentioned that you've felt free trade must be reversed, but you said you're not sure if it would create havoc in the beneficiary countries (where the outsourcing goes).

I say rest assurred that the other end of NAFTA and any WTO agreements is exploitation of their public. It's not a path to their own liberty and quality of life at all. I can prove this.

Look at what WTO agreements which have been monopolizing world agriculture through conglomerates like Monsanto. This has resulted in the disruptance of local farmers to the point where hundereds of thousands of farmers in India have been ruined--thousands of them have committed suicide. The same thing has been going on in remote rural Mexico, and Central and south America--AND Canada.
Central and south America rejected FREE trade agreements last year, when talks at the conferences in their countries broke down.

As for the Indian IT boom, a new generation has made out well enough for now, but that's temporary. There is a glass ceiling on how much they will be allowed to prosper before the outsourcing is yanked out of one region and given to the next hungry public. India's outsourcing has already been shunted to the more desperate parts of Eastern Europe.
This is a game global corporations can play forever. To sum up, the public and the production providers simply can never win with that system.

In terms of legistlation that we can demand, it must return to the sane system of government regulation of how much of a nation's infrastructure industries can be uprooted and shipped abroad. I'm talking about the infrastructure industries that kept the US self reliant. Steel production, agriculture, manufacturing. A nation must keep an adequate percentage of such industry and resources domestic, the formula is simply to keep as much domestic as would be required if the country had to rely entirely on it's own production.

There's another way. You probably already know about. The doctrine of FAIR TRADE. http://www.fairtradefederation.org/



Quote:
Free Trade principles and practices:

FAIR WAGES IN THE LOCAL CONTEXT

Producers receive fair compensation for their products, which means that workers are paid at least that country's minimum wage. Since the minimum wage is often not enough for basic survival, whenever feasible, workers are paid a living wage, which enables them to cover basic needs, such as food, shelter, education and health care for their families. Paying fair wages does not necessarily mean that products will cost the consumer more. Since fair trade organizations bypass exploitative middlemen and work directly with producers, they are able to reduce costs and return a greater percentage of the retail price to the producers.


PARTICIPATORY WORKPLACES

Fair trade organizations work primarily with small businesses, democratically-run associations, and/or cooperatives which bring significant benefits to workers and their communities. Cooperatives and producer associations provide a healthy alternative to large-scale manufacturing and sweatshops conditions, where unprotected workers earn below minimum wage and most of the profits flow to foreign investors and local elites who have little interest in ensuring the long term health of the communities in which they work. By banding together, workers are able to access credit, reduce raw material costs and establish more just prices for their products. Workers earn a greater return on their labor, and profits are distributed more equitably. Profits are also often reinvested in community projects, such as health clinics, child care, education and training. Workers practice important leadership and organizing skills, enabling self-reliant grassroots-driven development. Safe and healthy working conditions are maintained and producers gain greater control and decision making power over the use of their resources.


ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY

Fair trade organizations engage in environmentally friendly practices which manage and use local resources sustainably. Many FTF members work directly with producers in regions of high biodiversity to develop products based on sustainable use of their natural resources, giving communities an incentive to preserve their natural environments for future generations.


FINANCIAL AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT

Small-scale farmers and artisans in the developing world lack access to affordable financing. FTF members that buy products directly from producers often provide financial assistance either through direct loans, prepayment or link producers with sources of financing. Unlike many commercial importers who often wait 60-90 days before paying producers, many FTF members supply prepayment so that producers have sufficient funds to cover raw materials and basic needs during production time. They also often provide other critical technical assistance and support such as market information, product feedback and training in financial management. Unlike commercial importers, FTOs establish long term relationships with their producers and help them adapt production for changing trends.

CONSUMER EDUCATION

Fair trade organizations educate consumers about the importance of purchasing fairly traded products which support living wages and healthy working conditions. By defining fair trade and conducting business in a manner that respects workers' rights and the environment, the fair trade movement strives to educate consumers about the often hidden human costs of their "bargains." By providing information about producers' history, culture and living conditions, fair trade organizations enhance cross-cultural understanding and respect between consumers and communities in the developing world. They also educate consumers and policy makers about inequities in the global trading system.


RESPECT FOR CULTURAL IDENTITY

Fair trade organizations encourage the production and development of products based on producers' cultural traditions, as adapted for Western markets. They seek to promote producers' artistic talents in a way that preserves cultural identity.


PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY

FTF members' finances, management policies, and business practices are open to the public and monitoring by the Fair Trade Federation.

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navari
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ormond wrote:
Navari, I've been listening to your solo broadcast with Fintan again today.
(the more I think on the premise you've found the more worth pursuing it seems--everyone's been waiting for the fresh approach to reversing the control freak seven year binge--and this is the first fresh premise I've heard with handles on it).

Thanks very much. I've developed a lot of respect for the people here in a
very short period of time, and I am really glad that I've been able to
contribute in a way that folks appreciate. Now lets go kick some serious butt
by ignoring the capital class, and all of their baggage, and just do what is
best for us. Razz

Some folks very close to me are career "corporate" politicians...and they
alway say "power, you either use it or loose it." Well, it is time for us to
use it, as we have always been in the power position. But somewhere
along the line we forget this.
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Ormond



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
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Location: Belly of the Beast, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"power, you either use it or loose it." Well, it is time for us to
use it, as we have always been in the power position. But somewhere
along the line we forget this.


We must translate that fact into a Core Value term for brevity. "courage of convictions" is a core value statement I've used for that principle. We need a better way to say it since convictions seem to be maleable and manipulated. As is the case with supporters of the occupation of Iraq.

This is a key. We know that the 'war on terror' legislation, invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq happened because the public didn't say no. In fact too many people plastered flag stickers all over their cars for the first year, and shouted down reason.

The public is conditioned to turn to the government or the boss to come up with solutions to problems--even problems created by the government and economic system itself. That why the Hegelian dialectic works against us.

See how the public has handled the unpopular war in Iraq. They complain to the government. That's what marches are. If the government's unresponsive, they wait 4 years to 'vote the bastards out'.
That leads nowhere.

How to stop the current Wars of occupation:

I know how to end the War. NOBODY ENLIST!

The real influence in wars is families and women. Read the Greek play, Lysastrada.

If parents disapproved of sons joining up instead of urging and praising them, and more importantly, if girls in that age group refused to date soldiers, you'd see enlistments plummet to the bottom of the barrel. That happened toward the end of Viet Nam, but they had the draft.

If this parents and women put their foot down on war, they could only continue it through a draft--and there's no way quicker to "bring the war home" to the public than a draft.
In 1966 parents were waving the flag for sons who enlisted, by 1970 they were helping the defect to Canada.

The public have the power of a tidal wave. That power costs nothing to produce---it's simply belief, attitude, and consensus. 'Hearts and Minds'.

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Ozregeneration



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ormond wrote:
How to stop the current Wars of occupation:

I know how to end the War. NOBODY ENLIST!

The real influence in wars is families and women. Read the Greek play, Lysastrada.

If parents disapproved of sons joining up instead of urging and praising them, and more importantly, if girls in that age group refused to date soldiers, you'd see enlistments plummet to the bottom of the barrel. That happened toward the end of Viet Nam, but they had the draft.

If this parents and women put their foot down on war, they could only continue it through a draft--and there's no way quicker to "bring the war home" to the public than a draft.
In 1966 parents were waving the flag for sons who enlisted, by 1970 they were helping the defect to Canada.

The public have the power of a tidal wave. That power costs nothing to produce---it's simply belief, attitude, and consensus. 'Hearts and Minds'.


Greetings,

Or make sure that uncensored footage, showing what war really means, gets on the TVs. If the mothers and fathers see brains being blown apart, intestines hanging from bodies and mutilated limbs hanging from threads then I wouldn't imagine it would take long at all before parents are screaming out for their sons and daughters to come home.

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will



Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:34 am    Post subject: FSL Reply with quote

Underlying Principle:

1) no limitiations on my speech.

2) no limitations on my conduct, with the exception of conduct which restricts others from pursuing their choice of conduct.
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Ormond



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ozgeneration.

Uncensored footage and photos are available on the internet. The MSM will not show that so it's a matter of changing people's habit of getting their information downloaded into them through satellite tv, and teaching them to use search engines with their own questions about the war.

The government MSM ruse is to lay on the meme of 'heroic sacrifce'. But pinning medals is lip service. It doesn't hold up with a long war, since the government doesn't support the injured vets. They become second class citizens after the speeches. Ruined lives have greatest impact as victims of war propaganda begin to show up in communities as the meat grinder continues for years.

Quote:
will
Underlying Principle:

1) no limitiations on my speech.

2) no limitations on my conduct, with the exception of conduct which restricts others from pursuing their choice of conduct.


Welcome, will. Number two really cuts to the chase. That's a universal principle. Good to include up front, with emphasis for so much follows suit from that premise.

Quote:
"Freedom is something only you must assert, if the Man gives you freedom-- it is not freedom."

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obeylittle



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reject all racism, division and/or oppression. Teach it, live it, enjoy it.

Reject all rights for corporations and government servants except for their equal individual rights. Corporations or government should not be allowed to provide public services. Those are the concern and domain of the community and so are answerable only to the person(s) in the community.

Provide additional policing, investigation and stiff penalty enforcement for criminals in companies and government. Banish criminals permanently from the community (free to survive alone) in serious cases. All persons convicted of criminal act(s) must secure permission to enter/inhabit a community.

All non-private persons business, records or activities are available publicly. No such thing as "sealed for national security reasons" or similar excuse. Wide open and visible on demand.

Lay down minimum quality (stuff should be engineered and made to last dammit!), environmental and safety standards for all goods and services with severe penalties (see above) for violation.

Educate our children to think (teach thinking and analytical skills) and act responsibly, and provide them with the finest education possible, within, or as close to the family environment as possible.

Care for our family members and the elderly. As a community responsibility if immediate family members are deceased or unable. Health care provided wholly within the community.

Raise orphaned children as a shared community responsibility.

Be self-sufficient. Carry your own water. Celebrate often.
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