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Uncovered: The Rat's Nest of 9/11
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Phil Howe



Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll give you a number wrapped in mystery and intrigue, a number that has raised a lot of interest and seems to stalk many people;myself included.

11:11


But don't look at it for too long, I guarantee that if you do it will find you to..... Wink

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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must add a comment.

I've heard Jones describe the Illuminati in one of his "Weekly Reports" along with his introduction of a screening of F-911 at Alamo. Here's the Gist.

Illuminati to him seems to include these groups -- global banking and finance cartels, monopoly cartel capitalists, The Council on Foreign Relations, The G-8, The Tri-Lateral Commission, the Bilderburg Group, the Tax-Free Foundations (Rockefeller, McArthur, Ford) who fund the fake Left, Robertson and Falwell, Paul Harvey, Skull and Bones (which would be scary enough if it did not also practice occult ritual, considering it as a breeding ground for elite fucks who run things), the Bohemian Grove crowd (which would be scary enough if they didn't also do the Cremation of Care ritual/performance), the CIA (some of it, or a cabal within it), various other military leaders who would be directing "troops" to serve as cops, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, PNAC, foreign Intelligence including Mossad, MI-6, but also Paki, Saudi, Indonesia, France ... basically any country big enough to have an Intelligence branch.

Aamof, he even states the Illuminati is an Intelligence Organization --- they KNOW, we live in darkness.

Oh, and of course "Al-Qaeda".

I found a mainstream article in which some low level Indonesian official stated that the bombings were carried out by Intelligence, not Muslims, and Indo Intell means CIA. So does Paki Intell, Saudi Intell.

Now I would not venture that every single soul who cashes a CIA paycheck is guilty of being Illuminati, but all are suspect .. exp those who get "exposure". (Unlike the "rogues" who were supposed to be shut up by the "Valerie Plame Act" under Bush Sr.)

My point is, there's more than I can say here, but the main points Jones makes on the Illuminati are NOT too controversial. He does not blame "capitalism" but he seems to be hoping for some return of grassroots capitalism, small biz, etc. Not too clear.

here's the Jones Illuminati talk:
http://s104310130.onlinehome.us/poli/vid/AJ_talks_on_Illuminati++.avi


I wanted to ask him how he'd propose to reign in the powerbrokers who OWN the government, without a "big govt" govt which has more power than the G-8, which actually COULD have the power to say "kill NAFTA", instead of "pass FTAA".

Even some of his weirder stuff -- Ted Pike (hate speech bill), La Raza (it really was a Ford Foundation project), Gaylon Ross (on evil Zionists) -- I found to be credible and non-racist. Sometimes I had to mentally translate it to some Left-speech like that of Ralph Schoenman, balance it out.

Still, I like Fintan's site. It's TRUE, Jones over-the-top delivery tends to repel Leftists, but the Christian Right would be more comfortable with him, and he seems to be a reality-based Christian, not a psycho-Christian. The fact that he means to fight "armageddon" and not "sit back and wait for it" I find commendable.

Actually, I like Jones' entertaining videos like Martial Law, but I find the detailed Osama-CIA connections from Chossudovsky much more refreshing and serious.

Tell me what you think of MY amateur site www.Takeoverworld.info

That's why I start with the Brzezinski-Al-Qaeda connection and go from there, with him praising Jihadists. I go to the fact that Baker blocked the Widows lawsuit and Chertoff defended a terror money-laundering case ... plus the Gen Mahmoud Ahmed angle you're aware of.

It does seem that CIA was unaware that India would catch that money transfer, and that Goss could blow it off as "nonsense" but the "Atta is a red herring" point which is raised here throws a spin on that.

I realize I probably need to clean it up now, get rid of some trash, but heck even Tarpley is considered solid for his Bush biography, if not 9-11.

Anyhow, PLEASED TO MEET YOU.
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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rumpl4skn,
Anyone coming up with the "theories" Jimmy Walter has -- blue rays, everyone on flights alive and govt agents --- is a kook, OR CIA.

People surrounding Webfairy and doctored photographs, i.e. the "pod" people are disinfo. Jim Hoffman covered that.

As for Ruppert and Jones, I appreciate the direction they took with the big picture for Jones and the "building a paper case" for Ruppert, but I have had some severe problems with them.

The only problem I can think of that Fintan has with Chossudovsky (Osama=CIA, and Al-Qaeda has been a CIA project since 1978 through at least 1997, but actually up through TODAY!!, look up ACPC) is that Chossudovsky is aligned with Ruppert in a sense because Ruppert uses his material and Michel posts some of Rupperts articles.

Chossudovsky DEFINITELY exposes this as CIA and beyond, bi-partisan, non-partisan, and global corporate+govt interests. I read his bio and he was present when the "Chicago Boys" were cheering Pinochet and the CIA's coup ... he was disgusted.

I don't think he's specifically peak oil, but he knows that strategic control of oil is important ... in part because Brzezinski said so, but that's not where it ends obviously, it goes to "facts on the ground" and other elite commentators like Wolfowitz "obviously if there was no oil, we wouldn't be there" insofar as invading the M.E.

I've found THAT stuff unimpeachable, but I'm completely open minded to be proven wrong, so long as it's not drivel.
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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Rats Nest 2 - Plame Reply with quote

"Patrick Fitzgerald, who is prosecuting Libby, handled the 1993 World Trade
Center bombing prosecution of Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman. Another, shall
we say, "sensitive" case. "

Ralph Schoenman --- whatever you think of him -- has COMPELLING audio on Fitzgerald and the Plame case on www.takingaim.info See Night of the Long Knives, part 1 and 2.

SERIOUSLY.

WTC 1993 was run from top to bottom by FBI, except for the parking of the van. At least several people confirmed that, from Rivero to the NYT and LA Times, and others, mostly in bits and pieces.

Fitz also put Lynne Stewart up for 30 years.
Fitz said 1993 was "Al-Qaeda" and he may have even been one of the NY prosecutors who was the inventor of the name "Al-Qaeda".

He reiterates "CIA IS NOT YOUR FRIEND" and Plame's husband Wilson was part of the plot to get Saddam to invade Kuwait, with Scowcroft on the other end.
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kawazu



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil Howe wrote:
I'll give you a number wrapped in mystery and intrigue, a number that has raised a lot of interest and seems to stalk many people;myself included.

11:11


But don't look at it for too long, I guarantee that if you do it will find you to.....
Dude,I know exactly what you are talking about.A mysterious and intriguing number indeed.Two or three years ago I became interested in the rather strange and difficult to explain "coincidences"(not)in the numerology related to 9-11.The number 11 has since been a part of my everyday life,I notice it everywhere.My subconcious is tuned to this number.More often than not,when I think to look at the time,its usually 9:11,11:11,7:11,2:22,3:33,5:55,etc.This has become normal for me.3 days ago I was at work,waiting for a stoplight when I noticed the car in front of me had a state issued license plate that said:SEE 911.I instinctively looked at the time,and yep,you guessed it:9:11 A.M.I try not to read too much into this,the only rational explanation I have currently is that its all about the subconcious mind.I have read various theories and explanations of the numerolgy associated with 9-11,and I still am not sure what to make of it all.I do know there is definately some sort of significance here,im just not exactly sure what.
    1.Sept 11th 1990,exactly 11 years before 9-11-01,George HW Bush gave his infamous speech".....out of these troubled times can emerge....a New World Order"
    2.The towers had 110 stories each,zero being nothing,read 11.The towers themselves looked like a giant 11.
    3.The first plane to strike the twin towers was flight 11,which(allegedly) had 92 people on board(9+2=11).Flight 77(allegedly) had 65 people on board 6+5=11.
    4.9-11-01(9+1+1=11) was the 254th day of the year,2+5+4=11.There were exactly 111 days left in the year.Remember the cute picture of G.W posing with the NYC Fire Fighter?The number on the firemans helmet is 254.
Anyone have any thoughts on this subject?I would be very interested to hear Fintans take on this.
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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kawazu wrote:
Anyone have any thoughts on this subject?I would be very interested to hear Fintans take on this.


Also, they broke ground for the Pentagon on Sept 11, 1941, 60 years prior to the date, I think. And Chile was overthrown by CIA backed forces on Sept 11, 1973.

I think Numerology is BULLSHIT, but as Alex Jones pointed out, THEY apparently think it gives them some power because THEY are the Illuminati. (OK, so I think it's bullshit, but check back with me in 1 year.)
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:35 pm    Post subject: Numerology Reply with quote

While I don't understand or 'use' numerology or anything, I still think there is incredible occult power in 'numbers'.

I think numbers and math are equivalent to the formation of language in the development of human kind. The ability to think in terms of abstractions is huge - it is one of the things that defines a human brain, and allows communication, cooperation, and civilization to occur. It's also possible that there are other 'uses' or 'modes' for these symbols we all recognize as numbers or words. After all, one cannot realize his own worth unless he as the ability to 'count' his money.

Just as the builders of Solomon's temple had to 'do the math' in order to reliably construct a sturdy monument, perhaps the social engineers of the NWO also employ a 'set of formulas' that can be visible in the blueprints of their new 'Temple', essentially, the psyche of the emerging global citizen.

The Bible is filled with stories involving numbers that suggest historical ties to astrotheology, alchemy, and other occult disciplines - the same numbers that supposedly hold occult significance still (3,13,666, etc).

Interestingly, Aleister Crowley had an apparently good relationship with the number 11.
Quote:
My number is 11, as all their numbers who are of us. The Five Pointed Star, with a Circle in the Middle, & the circle is Red. My colour is black to the blind, but the blue & gold are seen of the seeing. Also I have a secret glory for them that love me.
-Aleister Crowley

From: My number is 11, as all their numbers who are of us
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/my_number_11.htm


Perhaps I've been reading too many books on the origins of freemasonry, but yeah, I think there is something behind the number coincidence stuff, but, as usual, I have no idea what it really is. Is there truly 'supernatural' energy behind these symbols, or are they yet another example of the incredible power of psychological conditioning?

Here's a bunch of 'occult numerology' information gathered interestingly into one place. It's a bit 'End-of-Times' and 'Mark O' The Beast' but interesting nevertheless, and a good 'overview' of the prevailing ideas suggested by internet conspiracy lit. I think this comes from a dude who was a Freemason, and got creeped out and quit - make of that what you will.

11, 13 and 33 - The Illuminati / Freemason Signature
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kawazu



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 54
Location: Kansas

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry Fletcher wrote:
While I don't understand or 'use' numerology or anything, I still think there is incredible occult power in 'numbers'.
That pretty much sums up how I feel as well.
Jerry Fletcher wrote:
Just as the builders of Solomon's temple had to 'do the math' in order to reliably construct a sturdy monument, perhaps the social engineers of the NWO also employ a 'set of formulas' that can be visible in the blueprints of their new 'Temple', essentially, the psyche of the emerging global citizen.
Nicely put,from what I have seen that makes alot of sense.It also makes a nice form of worldwide communication between all the "conspirators".
Quote:
Here's a bunch of 'occult numerology' information gathered interestingly into one place. It's a bit 'End-of-Times' and 'Mark O' The Beast' but interesting nevertheless, and a good 'overview' of the prevailing ideas suggested by internet conspiracy lit. I think this comes from a dude who was a Freemason, and got creeped out and quit - make of that what you will.

11, 13 and 33 - The Illuminati / Freemason Signature
I dont know what to make of the supposed "ex" Freemason,but I do like this website,it covers alot of ground and is a good intro to occult numerology and related theories.That is if youre not scared off by talk of Aliens and Satan.I'm not a religous person and Ive never really been all that interested in the topic of Aliens and UFOs,but the way I see it even those are possibilities.You cant really rule them out.What I have determined is that numbers are indeed powerful in a way that I dont quite understand and cannot articulate,and it is apparent to me that the architects of the NWO draw power and inspiration from the use of numerology,and it is a vital part of their planning and advancement.Beyond that im at a loss.This particular quote from that website stood out to me:
Quote:
The late American Professor Revilo P. Oliver, a confirmed atheist, was forced to conclude: "A theory that a conspiracy has been working consciously for many centuries is not very plausible unless one attributes to them a religious unity. That is tantamount to regarding them as Satanists engaged in the worship and service of supernatural evil. The directors of the conspiracy must see or otherwise directly perceive manifestations which convince them of the existence and power of Lucifer. And since subtle conspirators must be very shrewd men, not likely to be deceived by auto-suggestion, hypnosis, or drugs, we should have to conclude that they probably are in contact with a force of pure evil." (Prof. Revilo P. Oliver, Conspiracy or Degeneracy?, USA)
Now, my knee jerk reaction is to dismiss this as bullshit once it gets to "The directors of the conspiracy must see or otherwise directly perceive manifestations which convince them of the existence and power of Lucifer."But the part about religous unity makes perfect sense.Without this unity,such a long running and pervasive conspiracy does seem to be much less likely.Can this degree of unity be produced among the ruthless psycopathic geniuses of the world without the benefit of some religous theme bringing them together?I dont know.But I find myself returning to this subject again and again,of all the things I have seen,read or heard about,it interests me the most.The maddening part is that sometimes it seems as if the more I learn, the less I know,but I just keep at it anyways.
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kawazu wrote:

Can this degree of unity be produced among the ruthless psycopathic geniuses of the world without the benefit of some religous theme bringing them together?I dont know.


What if it works the other way around? We've always been conditioned to believe that God created religion, and that it has been around too long to have been the product of social politics.

The degree of unity among the ruthless sociopaths running the global corporatocracy could be explained if there has always been an elite social class whose activities have remained 'hidden' from the society at large. (There was an article around BFN somewhere a few months ago regarding the Brahmin class in India that supported this concept.)

Also, check out the Council of Nicea. That's when Jesus officially got promoted to 'state spokesman'. Anything that claims to be the 'word of God' still had to be heard correctly and written down by some dude for reasons we'll never be sure of, not to mention, today we call these types of people 'schizophrenics' rather than 'saints'. But I digress..


Considering this, is it possible that this 'ruling class' created the religious doctrine we have today as a tool of social control, and managed to pass on the operational knowledge of this social manipulation only to the offspring of this social class? This would ensure a multi generational relationship with the religious institutions that pretend to hold authority over them, but in actuality, the church is administering the elitist policies to the general public in the form of 'salvation' and 'philanthropy', while allowing the ruling class to remain invisible behind the veil of 'religious freedom' and 'holy sanctity'.

The 'Power of Lucifer' might be a concept designed by the elite, marketed by the elite, enforced by the elite, evidenced by the elite, and necessary for the elite to remain the elite.


It would only be effective, if they created the 'Holy Power of God' at the same time, so they could then pit those two against each other in the media, er, I mean the Bible.

Wanna convince everybody of the 'Goodness of God?' Do a bunch of nice things and help a lot of people. Then say God did it. Wanna prove the 'Evil of Satan?' Do a lot of terrible things, torture and murder millions, arrange the bodies into horrifying heaps and get plenty of pictures - then blame it all on 'Lucifer'.

Chicken or the egg? Politics or religion? They've both trampled the human spirit for centuries, so I can't help feeling like they spring from the same source. What interests me is not which dominates the other, but rather how they insidiously always seem to work together to the detriment of humanity at large.

Of course, now I have to quote the lyrics from XTC's song Dear God:
Quote:
Dear god,
Hope you got the letter,
And I pray you can make it better down here.
I donít mean a big reduction in the price of beer,
But all the people that you made in your image,
See them starving on their feet,
ícause they donít get enough to eat

From god,
I canít believe in you.

Dear god,
Sorry to disturb you,
But I feel that I should be heard loud and clear.
We all need a big reduction in amount of tears,
And all the people that you made in your image,
See them fighting in the street,
ícause they canít make opinions meet,
About god,
I canít believe in you.

Did you make disease, and the diamond blue?
Did you make mankind after we made you?
And the devil too!

Dear god,
Donít know if you noticed,
But your name is on a lot of quotes in this book.
Us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look,
And all the people that you made in your image,
Still believing that junk is true.
Well I know it ainít and so do you,
Dear god,
I canít believe in,
I donít believe in,

I wonít believe in heaven and hell.
No saints, no sinners,
No devil as well.
No pearly gates, no thorny crown.
Youíre always letting us humans down.
The wars you bring, the babes you drown.
Those lost at sea and never found,
And itís the same the whole world íround.
The hurt I see helps to compound,
That the father, son and holy ghost,
Is just somebodyís unholy hoax,
And if youíre up there youíll perceive,
That my heartís here upon my sleeve.
If thereís one thing I donít believe in...

Itís you,
Dear god.
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dilbert_g
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Uncovered: The Rat's Nest of 9/11 Reply with quote

I don't know if anyone noticed this yet. It's an amusing piece of what I would call true gossip.

"If Jimmy Walter is not working consciously to undermine the 9/11 truth movement, then he is the patsy of the disinformation campaign. His publicist is Ilene Proctor, whose normal clientele consists of minor Hollywood celebrities and pop stars. One of her clients was the lip-synching Milli Vanilli ..."

It's on Rabinowitz oilempire, which is a Ruppert cheerleader site with more graphics. I wanted to email him because he seems sincere, but his email's not posted. (then again, mine is present but buried on my site too).

In terms of presenting this to others, in stages

I'm not 100% convinced of Peak Oil one way or another. I'm leaning heavily towards what Fintan has found to be strong evidence to indicate it's a hoax, but one thing for sure, Peak Oil is completely irrelevant to 9-11 the crime. It "could" explain "why" in some sense, but that's immaterial. The "why" is like a mitigating argument a defense atty would use before sentencing, like "he is a good father".

It's the tie-in to 9-11 that's purely theoretical. Iow, they certainly would not need "the end of oil", real or not, to carry out a MIHOP for all the global financial/tyranny/fear reasons which Fintan lays out, and frankly which I had tossed around before I met you guys - the point of Ledeen having written a book on Global fascism, and the semi-known CIA-Bush ties to fascism.

In my conclusion, lack of "peak oil" does not debunk 9-11, while insistence on it IS a poison pill.

Has anyone seen G. Edward Griffin (Libertarian) covering LIHOPs on World War 1 and World War 2? He doesn't call them "LIHOP" but he calmly states that they were, and that the declassified memos prove it. He also generally thinks that 9-11 was probably an inside job.

I've taken to calling Northwoods NOT "proof of the 9-11 plan" like Jones says, but rather proof of "means, motive, and opportunity" + willingness and strong intention to kill Americans for war and profit and anti-communist hysteria. I got the impression from arguing with people that it's important to set limits on what each "anomaly X" proves, so you don't look like a quack.

At this point, I agree with you all that there's stronger evidence for MIHOP and no Arabs whatsoever, since there is only flimsy evidence that any "Al-Qaeda" was involved, except as a distraction. There's reasonabe evidence to throw up big questions on the theory that any Arabs did actually fly planes, since the accused weren't Jihadists and since all or many of them were CIA going way back.

And there's fairly good evidence that Global Hawk technology could have been used, and probably was needed for the Pentagon attack, unlike Jones who says it WAS used.

Regardless of disinfo that whatreallyhappened promotes, does everyone concur with their fake osama page with the comparison btw the old Osama and the govt video? It sure don't look like the same guy to me.

Whatever criticisms of Chossudovsky, his associations, his detailed approach, his stance on Iran, the Osamagate page --- where he proves conclusively that Osama is NOT who the USG says he is, i.e. an outside enemy --- I think is still valid.

Likewise, I still think that Choss/Ruppert's coverage of The Grand Chessboard is valid, it's just that he then soaks it in peak oil!!

I'm totally on-board with the "G8", and basically Chossudovsky hints at the same thing back in 2001 when he talks about geopolitics, because it's so obvious on the big picture. But in argument with anyone new, some of the original valid points must stand up, otherwise, you are back to "the G8 fighting a legit WoT".

I like what Jim Hoffman did, in separating Gold vs. Fools Gold on Loose Change, although it's very clear that the intention of the flick is just confusion.

anyone have time to concur / dispute these details?
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dilbert wrote:

I'm not 100% convinced of Peak Oil one way or another. It seems Fintan has found strong evidence to indicate it's a hoax, but one thing for sure, it's completely irrelevant to 9-11.


Take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Two 'unrelated' issues can very often be somehow 'working together' toward a larger agenda.

Such is the case with the 'coincidence' of the simultaneous war on terror and the peak oil poopoo. Think about it. Why would Ruppert be 'exposing' 911 and pushing Peak Oil?

Who would benefit from the whole crowd (left, right, mainstream, alternative) thinking that we're running outta oil?


Who would benefit from constant images of burning oil fields and insurgent attacks in the middle east?

Have you looked at the price of gas in the US recently?

There's a lot more to it than that, but basically Choss / Ruppert are fakes. Sorry, it's true. Face it. They're going to accurately analyze some aspects of 911, because that's how they gain your trust - but then, rather than conclude their analysis, they introduce other bullshit that's part of the SAME AGENDA that created 911 - peak oil, iran, marshall law, whatever...

Dude, stop trying to figure those guys out - forget em. Their purpose is not to 'expose' 911, but simply to use it's 'fishyness' to make sure the larger agenda is framed properly for the lazy skeptic and tinfoil crowd.

Without understanding how these chumps fit into the bigger picture, none of their moves make any sense at all, and you'll never get a logical answer as to why each fake has his own particular gumbo of 'ideas'.

Please read these three articles by Dave McGowan. You'll be glad you did.

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr52.html

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr55.html

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr64.html
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Ormond



Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 1556
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Two 'unrelated' issues can very often be somehow 'working together' toward a larger agenda.


I guess great minds think alike, Jerry. I just posted virtually the same statement on my new post "Video of 9/11 plane hitting Pentagon is released"

But here, I think you're onto Rappaport, and the sleight of hand trick in general.

Let's call all this stuff 'The Big Con". Those who've ever read about the big time con artists, well, the mind games they play make Mission Impossible look like Mr. Rogers Neighborhood in the complexity.

Honest people look at things like 911 and Peak Oil like.....well.......honest people.
Not that we're not honest too! I'm saying that the bigger the Con job to be done, the more byzantine the deception.

Nobody was talking about Peak Oil in the '90's! When was the first time you heard about it? It seemed fishy beause they evidently just pulled it out of their ass.

I asked my buddy in Ukraine if they have Peak Oil problems with the cheaper Russian gasoline Putin has flowing like water now.

He said, "Peak what?"
He's a physicist. He said, "Oil is not plant product. Is mineral process. Renewable resource".

Who paid for all those oil surveys and petrochemical research and geology back to the turn of the century in the west anyway? Could Standard Oil have only paid for research that would support the 'non renewable resource' theory? Naw. Not unless they had an ulterior motive or somethin'.

Jerry, what can you say about this matter than some have said petroleum is created by a mineral process under the crust? Is that a fantasy or is it worth looking into?

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