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Hoagland, NASA, CBS: To Fake or Not to Fake?
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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:39 am    Post subject: Hoagland, NASA, CBS: To Fake or Not to Fake? Reply with quote

...discern for yourselves.


But note this: isn't it odd that whenever someone needs to plug a book, they plug it on Jones' first? And now in this intraview we have an Art Bell reference. Birds. Feathers. Hyperdimensional noodles...with chilli space powder and vacuously-vacuum packed-vacuum packaging.


But I digress, obfuscate, lead opinion and still do that thing that concerned the carpet-cleaning lady when I was 12.


And my mother. [It was her best lounge carpet.] Embarassed













atm Shocked Confused


Last edited by atm on Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bri



Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 3226
Location: Capacious Creek

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Go to about 7:40 in the second video.

Project Camelot? Don't they interview David Wilcock a lot as well? Another odd one there.

It's the "cool" 2012 crowd, twisted, demented, Mckenna mutations, self help and aliens, and ESPs, the type you'd like to sit down with and chill if you are delusional enough to buy into anything they say...


Oh and of course don't forget about the Masonic/Illuminati conspiracy, and 9/11, it goes right along with all this moon landing stuff if you really think about it. Because you know, The Masons got all of their secrets from the moon and mars.
Laughing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_C._Hoagland



Quote:
U.S. government conspiracy

* The United States government has covered up the presence of extraterrestrials. In this he has support from ex-Pentagon official Colonel Philip J. Corso, as detailed in his book The Day After Roswell [43][44][45][46]
* The Space Agency murdered the Apollo 1 astronauts.[47]
* NASA Missions to Mars are a "well documented interest of the Bush family".[48][49]
* There is a clandestine space program, using anti-gravity technology reverse-engineered from lunar artifacts and communicated by secret societies. The capabilities of this technology include causing comets to explode.[50]
* President John F. Kennedy was assassinated by an agency or agencies bitterly opposed to his stated policy[51] of inviting Khruschev to create a joint US-Soviet manned lunar effort.[50]
* Federal agencies such as FEMA, NASA, and the U.S. government are linked to Freemasonry.[52][53][47][54]

[edit] Other claims

* Hoagland was awarded an "International Angstrom Medal for Excellence in Science" in 1993.[55] This was an unauthorized and unofficial award, given to Hoagland by the Angstrom Foundation Aktiebolag (AFAB), and without the permission of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences or Uppsala University. [56]
* Hoagland has asserted that he was the "co-creator" of the Pioneer 10 plaque along with Eric Burgess; however, according to accounts by Burgess and others, Hoagland was simply present when Burgess made the suggestion to Carl Sagan that Pioneer 10 carry some type of message to the stars. The design and execution of the message was done by Sagan and others.[35]
* The Saturnian moon Iapetus is an artificial world.[57] Hoagland speculated that Iapetus might be a fully or partially artificially constructed world by an ancient (and likely long-gone) extraterrestrial civilization. His conjecture relies on the moon's equatorial ridge, his perception of a geodesic shape (a moon of Iapetus's size ought to be compressed into an approximately spherical or ellipsoid form under pressures generated by its own gravity), and his claims of rectangular or linear structures in a close examination of surface features.[57] (See JPEG Compression Artifacts) This was an expansion of the 1980 theory of Donald Goldsmith and Tobias Owen, who suggested that the striking bicoloration of Iapetus might be the result of alien modification of a natural object.[58]
* The Galileo spacecraft, which burnt up in Jupiter's atmosphere, caused a mysterious black spot due to its nuclear payload [59]
* The Arecibo message was intentionally altered by author Carl Sagan.[60]
* The 9/11 attacks were part of a pseudo-Masonic conspiracy. [61][62]
* On December 9, 2007 Hoagland wrote[63] that the vexatious problems NASA was then having with the 'ECO' low fuel sensors in the space shuttle main fuel tank were due to what he called "Torsion Physics" and would never be resolved by conventional engineering. On February 7, 2008 STS-122 launched successfully. In the post-launch press conference mission managers reported that the ECO sensors had performed flawlessly. The problem had been traced to an external tank feed-through connector — and corrected using perfectly conventional engineering[2]. The mission ended, as planned, on February 20 — and was called a complete success. Hoagland offered no apology for his error.



It's tempting to get into this kind of stuff, but only if you consider "conspiracy theory" as a hobby, solving no problems, and ignoring the fact that your head is up the establishments ass to the point where it might AFFECT YOU.

Or you're just an idiot, or a fucking jerk, pushing these things about 9/11 (not you ATM, Hoagland) Wink

I'm guessing he gets a pretty phat paycheck...

"spooky spooky"





The Face Behind the
"Face" on Mars:
A Skeptical Look at
Richard C. Hoagland

by Gary P. Posner

©1990, 2000


http://members.aol.com/garypos2/Hoagland.html
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atm



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bri

I'll be back.


atm Wink
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michael



Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 3
Location: north carolina USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if there is a disinfo agenda in place to cover a genuine esoteric agenda at the core of "the conspiracy"
It is obvious that there have been deep links with the occult as the agenda has evolved over the centuries.
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just0



Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 686

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

michael wrote:
I wonder if there is a disinfo agenda in place to cover a genuine esoteric agenda at the core of "the conspiracy"
It is obvious that there have been deep links with the occult as the agenda has evolved over the centuries.


Laughing Laughing

There is an Intel agency campaign that promotes the idea that
there is an esoteric agenda at the core of "the conspiracy".


It's a great way to remove credibility from any real concerns
we might have, David Icke knows the score on that one. Wink

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bri



Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 3226
Location: Capacious Creek

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, they know all the secrets. If we could only master their powers!
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mandroid



Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not taking sides here but I'd really like to know of some "legit" researchers of esoterica.

It's not hard to see shows like C2C, Rense, LauraLee, etc. have been stops on an advertising circuit for most, if not all of the up-and-comers in the field.

I see authors I enjoy like Jay Weidner rubbing elbows with Whitley Strieber and Richard Hoagland (people I tend to think smell like a spoiled oyster sandwich) and am left to wonder if somehow they're all collaborating behind the scenes like ruthless promoters of fiction or if guys like Weidner tolerate the crowd because 'the circuit' is really the only place friendly enough to promote his out-of-the-ordinary ideas?

Is this 'circuit' just a means to an end for the publishers to sell their wares or are people like Art Bell and Jeff Rense also gatekeepers to Yay or Nay certain ideas that don't fit into the grand lie being told on their shows? (I'm referring to the fear tactics/Zionist plots, Grays eat babies' souls, etc.)

So since all of these other CIA Fake shows have the same guests promoting their new books, should I automatically disqualify the author for using those shows as a promotional medium or be somewhat forgiving because those shows are really the ONLY semi-popular, friendly medium authors of these ideas have?

If I was on a personal journey and stumbled upon a fantastic revelation that was awesomely counterculture and later based several books on it: where would I advertise? What are my options? Where are my outlets?
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Jerry Fletcher



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:47 pm    Post subject: Trust yourself Reply with quote

mandroid wrote:
Not taking sides here but I'd really like to know of some "legit" researchers of esoterica.


That would be you, dude!
It's a fine time in human history to be your own legit researcher.
Then we can all discuss the research rather than the researchers.

In my experience with the researchers you mention, 'esoteric' is often used as a euphemism for 'non-provable.'
Or simply 'made-up'.

It's all explained in the DVD, see. Order Part II now, and get a volume discount! Order now and keep the orgone keychain as your free gift!

Quote:
Is this 'circuit' just a means to an end for the publishers to sell their wares or are people like Art Bell and Jeff Rense also gatekeepers to Yay or Nay certain ideas that don't fit into the grand lie being told on their shows? (I'm referring to the fear tactics/Zionist plots, Grays eat babies' souls, etc.)


IMO, the 'circuit' is a clusterfuck of con men using traumatic geopolitical events to fluff up tired conspiracy memes in order to swindle a buck or two selling useless soul stealing crap to the frightened, the uneducated, the poor, the elderly, and anybody else confused by life in the information age.

These clowns are a self referencing bunch of opportunists that remain 'on message' enough to peddle their wares to the same group of suckers, er, I mean customers.

If it lights up the paypal button, it's 'truth!'

The intel agenda enables this graft and keeps the 'conspiracy industry' alive for purposes of information management. Any evidence usable for rational dissent is sure to be adopted, perverted, and violently promoted on 'the circuit' by one or more hi profile conspiracy theorists. If their version of the 'truth' manages to sell some books, DVD's, Orgone keychains, or gold coins, well, then the rest of the 'circuit' immediately approves and jumps on board.

'Thar's gold in them hills of Zion!'

So it works out for both elements - the con men get milk money for shoveling their shit, and the information managers have a convenient method for marginalizing any message that does not support the mainstream media agenda.

Quote:
If I was on a personal journey and stumbled upon a fantastic revelation that was awesomely counterculture and later based several books on it: where would I advertise? What are my options? Where are my outlets?


Personally, I'd start right here. What'cha got? Wink

Speaking of Hoagie, 'the circuit', 'legit' esoterica, and the inter-relatedness of all things conspiracy reminds me of this entertaining little circle jerk.

Dedicated men of science one and all... Wink


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mandroid



Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply Jerry and I tend to agree with most everything you've said. Obviously from my prior posts I'm and on-again, off-again Jordan Maxwell fan. Or, rather, a fan of the spectrum of his material. (Word-history, world history, human origins, Atlantis, etc.)

I wasn't so much proposing that I, personally, had revelations to share but was trying to imagine someone in that situation trying to find a well supported infrastructure to promote said ideas. Absolutely these men (JM, RH, GN) are good ol' boys from way back. Absolutely they are trying to turn a buck and they've established a network to do so. But I still read their stuff when my mind is too full of news "from the ground" such as the G8, Iraq/Iran War, Obama stuff. It's not that I'm a true believer but part of me wants to believe (not to ripoff the X-files). So trying to fulfill that want I look to Fintan's TreeIncarnation material. And Jordan Maxwell's material. And always Terrence McKenna's writings. And I'm thinking that guys like Jay Weidner may either be wittingly participating in ripping people off with BS ideas along with guys like Hoagland, or unwittingly playing along as a dupe with some interesting ideas.

As you said 'esoteric' material is nearly impossible to prove. It easily lends itself to fantasy -- which is part of it's appeal I think. But you can't convict someone for trying to push an idea that's impossible to prove. Or make a buck in doing so if people want to pay to hear. (Debunking and flaming are definitely fair game tho!)

I'm losing my own point to this so I'll wrap up.

If I'm an honest guy (or gal) trying to share an honest to goodness revelation I think people should know about, where do I go? BFN? Dreamland? I can't prove to anyone that what I'm saying is real though. BFN will crucify me. Dreamland will welcome me with open arms as long as I share part of the book profits to help advertise. Who else is left? The Mainstream outlets? Out of the question. This material has to have someplace to go and I think the majority end up in the Rense/Hoagland/C2C mega conspiracy network by default. And sure the information is probably managed but does it really need to be with the crank reputations these people have made for themselves? By combining the hundreds of sub-categories alongside one another (UFOs, Sumerian Temples, JFK Alien Babies, etc.) they almost cancel out each others' credibility by implied association. To an outside observer perusing a typical mega-conspiracy site their first conditioned reaction would be to catalog it all as junk.

And I'm saying it can't ALL be junk. Cherrypick, cherrypick, cherrypick. It's not a sin if it feels good. Wink

Apologies for the meandering. I occasionally get lost in the wordiness of words.
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aAzzAa



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 1140

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote




Bored of the life on the city of gold
He'd left and let nobody know.
Gone were the towers he had known from a child,
Alone with the dream of a life
He travelled the wide open road,
The blinkered arcade,
In search of another to share in his life.
Nowhere.
Everyone looked so strange to him.

They've got no horns and they've got no tail
They dont even know of our existence.
Am I wrong to believe in a city of gold
That lies in the deep distance, he cried

And wept as they led him away to a cage
Beast that can talk, read the sign.
The creatures they pushed and they prodded his frame
And questioned his story again.
But soon they grew bored of their prey
Beast that can talk?
More like a freak or publicity stunt.
Oh
No.

They've got no horns and theyve got no tail
They dont even know of our existence.
Am I wrong to believe in a city of gold
That lies in the deep distance, he cried

And broke down the door of the cage and marched on out.
He grabbed a creature by the scruff of his neck, pointing out:
There, beyond the bounds of you weak imagination
Lie the noble towers of my city, bright and gold.
Let me take you there, show you a living story
Let me show you others such as me
Why did I ever leave?

They've got no horns and theyve got no tail
They dont even know of our existence
Am I wrong to believe in a city of gold
That lies in the deep distance, he cried
And wept.

And so we set out with the best and his horns
And his crazy description of home.
After many days journey we came to a peak
Where the beast gazed abroad and cried out.
We followed his gaze and we thought that maybe we saw
A spire of gold - no, a trick of the eye thats all,
But the beast was gone and a voice was heard:

They've got no horns and they've got no tail
They dont even know of our existence
Am I wrong to believe in a city of gold
That lies in the deep distance

Hello friend, welcome home.
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hawkwind



Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 740

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bri wrote:

Project Camelot? Don't they interview David Wilcock a lot as well? Another odd one there.



_________________
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puffdaddy



Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 506
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Cydonia region on Mars needs to be more fully explored using a rover or even a manned mission. Hoagland might just be correct. Hoaglund is not a dumbass and instead of trying to discredit the man's integrity why not use science to either prove or disprove his theory? How exactly did a five sided pyramid end up there I wonder? Hoaglund has used the very same scientific techniques used by archeologists. Carl Sagan even said in his last book that those pyramids deserve a closer look.

I brought this subject up on this forum a couple years ago and got my ass handed to me. Oh well.
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