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Christine Maggiore, AIDS Skeptic Dies at 52
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Christine Maggiore, AIDS Skeptic Dies at 52 Reply with quote

Quote:
Christine Maggiore - A Modern Day Hero
Posted by hivquestions on December 30, 2008


A terrible loss for the campaign against Pharma's AIDS theories.

An outstanding woman, resolutely dedicated to helping others
has now paid the ultimate price for her life of harried activism
.

The AIDS zealots will claim that she died of AIDS of course. As they did
when Christine's daughter Eliza Jane died of a bad reaction to penicillin.

That tragic death of her daughter added to the strain on a campaigner
who was burning the candle not only at both ends but also in the middle.

Quote:
Christine Maggiore, vocal skeptic
of AIDS research, dies at 52


Woman and her husband sued Los Angeles County for
finding that daughter died of AIDS-related pneumonia
.

LA Times - December 30, 2008
By Anna Gorman and Alexandra Zavis

Until the end, Christine Maggiore remained defiant.

On national television and in a blistering book, she denounced research
showing that HIV causes AIDS. She refused to take medications to treat
her own virus. She gave birth to two children and breast-fed them,
denying any risk to their health. And when her 3-year-old child, Eliza Jane,
died of what the coroner determined to be AIDS-related pneumonia, she
protested the findings and sued the county.

On Saturday, Maggiore died at her Van Nuys home, leaving a husband,
a son and many unanswered questions. She was 52
.

According to officials at the Los Angeles County coroner's office, she had
been treated for pneumonia in the last six months. Because she had
recently been under a doctor's care, no autopsy will be performed unless
requested by the family, they said. Her husband, Robin Scovill, could not
be reached for comment.

Jay Gordon, a pediatrician whom the family consulted when Eliza Jane was
sick, said Monday that Maggiore's death was an "unmitigated tragedy."

"In the event that she died of AIDS-related complications, there are
medications to prevent this," said Gordon, who disagrees with Maggiore's
views and believes HIV causes AIDS. "There are medications that enable
people who are HIV-positive to lead healthy, normal, long lives."

Diagnosed with HIV in 1992, Maggiore plunged into AIDS volunteer work -
- at AIDS Project Los Angeles, L.A. Shanti and Women at Risk. Her
background commanded attention. A well-spoken, middle-class woman,
she was soon being asked to speak about the risks of HIV at local schools
and health fairs. "At the time," Maggiore told The Times in 2005, "I felt like
I was doing a good thing."

All that changed in 1994, she said, when she spoke to UC Berkeley
biology professor Peter Duesberg, whose well-publicized views on AIDS --
including assertions that its symptoms can be caused by recreational drug
use and malnutrition -- place him well outside the scientific mainstream.

Intrigued, Maggiore began scouring the literature about the underlying
science of HIV. She came to believe that flu shots, pregnancy and
common viral infections could lead to a positive test result. She later
detailed those claims in her book, "What if Everything You Thought You
Knew About AIDS Was Wrong?"

Maggiore started Alive & Well AIDS Alternatives, a nonprofit that
challenges "common assumptions" about AIDS. She also had a regular
podcast about the topic.

Her supporters expressed shock Monday over her death but were highly
skeptical that it was caused by AIDS. And they said it would not stop them
from questioning mainstream thinking.

"Why did she remain basically healthy from 1992 until just before her
death?" asked David Crowe, who served with Maggiore for a number of
years on the board of the nonprofit Rethinking AIDS. "I think it's certain
that people who promote the establishment view of AIDS will declare that
she died of AIDS and will attempt to use this to bring people back in line.
But you can only learn so much from an unfortunate death."

Brian Carter, who facilitated local peer groups with Maggiore, said the
movement would remain strong.

"Christine was only part of this. There is an outstanding number of
prominent rethinkers, independent thinkers, doctors, scientists, lawyers
who question AIDS causation."


Though they run counter to the scientific consensus about AIDS, such
beliefs can have a major effect. In South Africa, where about 5.7 million
people live with HIV, the government refused until 2005 to fund
antiretroviral treatment, citing questions about the effectiveness of the
drugs that inhibit the replication of HIV.

Federal health officials and other experts say the link between HIV and
AIDS has been shown in hundreds of studies and the prescription of
antiretroviral drugs has helped reduce the pandemic to a chronic but
manageable disease in the United States. Researchers from the Harvard
School of Public Health calculated earlier this year that the South African
government's delay in introducing treatment between 2000 and 2005 cost
more than 330,000 lives in that country.

Craig Thompson, executive director of AIDS Project Los Angeles, said
Maggiore was an effective and powerful advocate, in part because she
was a woman living with HIV. But he said her message discouraging
testing and treatment was dangerous.

"It's just really sad that she never could understand and never could trust
the medical community, unlike the rest of the world," Thompson said.

Maggiore's friends said she underwent a holistic "cleanse" last month
that left her feeling ill
.

"She was telling me that she wasn't feeling great," Carter said, adding
that he questioned whether the pneumonia was related to AIDS.

As an advocate, Maggiore counseled HIV-positive pregnant women on how
to avoid pressure to use the drug AZT as a method to reduce the chances
of transmission to their babies. She considered the drug toxic.

Maggoire gave birth to her son, Charlie, and his younger sister, Eliza Jane,
at home and breast-fed both, although research indicates that it increases
the risk of transmission. Eliza Jane Scovill died in 2005 from what the
coroner ruled was AIDS-related pneumonia. Maggiore and Scovill,
however, hired a pathologist who concluded that the girl died of an
allergic reaction to the antibiotic amoxicillin.

After Eliza Jane's death, Los Angeles police investigated whether Maggiore
and Scovill were negligent in not testing the girl for HIV. In 2006, the Los
Angeles County district attorney's office decided not to file criminal
charges against Maggiore, saying that it would have been difficult to prove
criminal negligence because Maggiore had sought medical advice. Friends
said that Maggiore never fully recovered after the death of her daughter
and that she had trouble even sleeping and eating. Her preteen son,
Charlie, has tested HIV negative.

Last year, Maggiore and Scovill sued Los Angeles County and others on
behalf of their daughter's estate, charging that the autopsy report lacked
proper medical and scientific evidence for the declared cause of death.
The case is pending.

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/medicine/la-me-christine-maggiore30-2008dec30,0,7436635.story


Quote:
From: MSN Nickname Alain5706
in response to Message 8
Sent: 12/30/2008 7:17 PM

She has died because she certainly took antibiotics.

This is what killed her.

But she died primarily because she believed in pneumonia.
This is
why she took antibiotics to treat it. This is also why we need to reappraise
toxoplasmosis, pneumonia, and tuberculosis (the three most diagnosed
illnesses to hiv+ people). Until we do that, there will be other deaths of
dissidents.

I imagine quite well the process leading to her death.

She was depressed because of the death of her daughter Eliza Jane (who
died from a combination of an anti-inflammatory drug and an antibiotic,
in 2005). Then, after some times, the level of cortisol in her body fell.
Because of that, the center of her body began to have less water in it.

Because of the dryness in the center of her body, she began to lose
weight and to cough. Her doctor, who wasn't a dissident, thought that it
was a pneumonia. He treated her with antibiotics. And after six months of
this treatment, she died.

And this could happen to every HIV+ dissident from this forum. There are
plenty of reasons why people can have a cough and lose weight, and then,
be diagnosed with pneumonia or tuberculosis.

http://groups.msn.com/aidsmythexposed/Message=37267


Quote:
Comments

Name: Vince - Date posted: 2008-12-30 10:26 AM Hometown: New Orleans

Comment:
We lived up the street from her in Van Nuys and loved her and her family.
While she was a lightning rod for controversy, there was no kinder
neighbor or sweeter family. My prayers go out to Robin and his son.

Name: Carl - Date posted: 2008-12-30 10:24 AM Hometown: Chicago

Comment:
I'm not seeing any evidence in this article that Christine actually died of
AIDS and not something else. Also, the presumption that her daughter
died of AIDS is false. Other doctors have looked at the pathology reports
and drawn a different conclusion--that she died of an allergic reaction to
an antiobiotic.

In fact, despite Christine's repeated requests, no tests results were ever
released showing that her daughter was HIV positive. Probably this, more
than anything, was the reason child endangerment charges were dropped
against Christine. Let's see the evidence that Christine actually died of
AIDS before we pronounce judgment against her.


Name: Eddie - Date posted: 2008-12-30 9:22 AM Hometown: Tampa

Comment:
As a gay man who waded through the sewers of the corrupt HIV Industry
for 6 years,I was the good little gay boy who did everything they told me
and I have denounced the so-called Gay Community on the basis of a
born again cult. The Gay Industry has definitely $old gay men out. [HIV]
has become self identification in the Western World where [HIV] dresses
in drag and carries a nice little rainbow sticker next to picture of the well
chiseled jock.

Unlike GBLT in the USA,Africans are isolated by the phoney construct of
AIDS delivered by Political Denialism,those politicians who have murdered
the Continent by pharmaceutical drug dealers.

Christine Maggiore was a vessel of truth, a light that embraced GBLT and
a thorn for those who opposed,say what you want,think what you
want, blog all you want but at least wait for the facts to come out before
you begin your genocidal block party.

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid69838.asp


Quote:
For BreakForNews Interviews with Christine, see:
http://www.breakfornews.com/AliveAndWell.htm



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Fintan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The told-you-so's have already begun:

Quote:

Peter Staley,
Founder & Advisory Editor,
AIDSmeds.com


What should we call it? A suicide?

What should we call it when a woman dies because she refuses
to believe she has a treatable illness?

And what should we call it when a woman lets her baby daughter die
because she refuses to believe the baby has a treatable illness?

A murder?....


I replied to him:

Quote:
What should we call it??

What should we call it when zealots leap to conclusions while the full
circumstances of Christine's death are still unknown?

Blind bigotry, that's what.

And what should we call it when a zealot such as Peter Staley accuses
a dead woman of murdering her daughter, even though the L.A. police
declined to support such a charge against Christine after a full investigation?

I call it dancing on the grave of the deceased.

Christine Maggiore was always measured in her statements on HIV/AIDS.
That was the hallmark of her activism. It was a mature and responsible
approach.

Perhaps you could learn that from her in her death.

It's hard to remain measured on such an emotionally charged issue as
AIDS, but Christine had to balls to play it right.

More balls than you, Stanley.

Link


By the way, the LA Times reported the coroner's coments like this:

According to officials at the Los Angeles County coroner's office,
she had been treated for pneumonia in the last six months.

But to give them credit, the San Francisco Chronicle added:

Quote:
She had been treated for pneumonia in the past six months,
but the official cause of her death was pending, county coroner
Assistant Chief Ed Winter said Tuesday.

He said it was unclear if her death was AIDS-related.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/12/30/state/n125357S10.DTL&tsp=1

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Big Boss



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Posts: 791
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sigh....this is terrible news. What a fighter Maggiore was....I can only hope and pray that there was indeed a peaceful end to her life given the war she died fighting.
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EddieT



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right in there behind you on Peter's blog Fintan. Nice post.

Absolutely tragic loss. When I heard your interview with Christine she was understandably overwhelmed, and I wondered how she could handle it all. That she fought as long as she did is remarkable, and a testament to her, her family, and those who supported her.

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arkestra



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christine i Love u
I feel u EVERYWHERE!
Yes there are tears and sadness!
But i feel so much peace now,

AIDS IS OVER
ITS REALLY OVER
AND U WERE THE BRIGHTEST LIGHT
FOR SO MANY OF US,

YOU LEAD THE FRONTLINE WITH SUCH GRACE,
COURAGE AND ELEGANCE IN THOUGHT, REASON
AND SPIRIT.

THE TEARS ARE STILL FLOWING
AND IM SURE WILL FOR MANY MANY DAYS TO COME
BUT STRANGLY OR MAYBE NOT SO STRANGELY
IVE NEVER SEEN THINGS SO CLEARLY SO CALMLY,
YOUR SPIRIT HAS SEEPED IN TO ALL OF US
AND MADE ALL OF US STRONGER.

BUT U WERE ONLY ONE!!!
AND NOW WE ARE MANY!

CHRISTINE YOUR PASSING IS THE BEGINNING,
ITS THE AWAKENING, THE REALISATION FOR ALL
OF US THAT WE ALL ARE YOU
JUST IMAGINE THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS
THAT HAVE STOOD AND WATCHED U SHINE
STEP FORWARD FROM THE SHADOWS
AND OVERWHELM THE INSIPID DULL NAUSEOUS
SINISTER REALM OF THE MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENT
WITH THE LIGHT AND COURAGE U INSPIRED IN ALL OF US

WE WILL WALK WIH THE GRACE AND COURAGE
U SHOWED US TO PUT TO BED THIS WAR AGAINST
HUMANITY, THIS INCREASINGLY SHODDY
CONSTRUCT,THIS SILLY LITTLE WORD

aids

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's fuller details on Christine's illness.

It is clear that the pneumonia which afflicted her in her final days
was not so-called "AIDS-related PCP Pneumonia," which is a fungal
infection of the lungs over a protracted period.

It was instead a standard bacterial pneumonia of both lungs.

There were other factors, which Celia Farber
and Christine's husband Robin detail below:

Quote:
What Killed Christine Maggiore?

by Celia Farber, 2008/12/30

I got the devastating news yesterday that my very good friend Christine
Maggiore died at home on December 27th, from a bout of bilateral
bronchial pneumonia, that afflicted her in recent weeks, and which she
was unable to overcome.


The news has been shattering to all who loved her around the world.

Speaking for myself, I can say that Christine Maggiore was one of the
strongest, most ethical, compassionate, intelligent, brave, funny, and
decent human beings I have ever had the honor to know. I spoke to her
in great depth about all aspects of life, death, love, and this battle we both
found ourselves mired in, and I will be writing about her and about those
conversations here, in the future. No matter what she was going through,
and it was always, frankly, sheer hell–every day of her life, since 2005,
she faced, acute grief, sadistic persecution, wild injustice, relentless battle,
and deep betrayal–she was always there for her friends, and she never
descended to human ugliness. She always tried to take the high road.

She always tried to be stronger than any human being could ever be
asked to be. I feared for her life, always. I feared the battle would kill her,
as I have felt it could kill me, if I couldn’t find enough beauty to offset the
malevolence. This is a deeply occult battle, and Christine got caught in its
darkest shadows.

She had apparently been on a radical cleansing and detox regimen
that had sickened her and left her very weak, dehydrated, and unable
to breathe. She was shortly thereafter diagnosed with pneumonia and
placed on IV antibiotics and rehydration. But she didn’t make it.


Those who loved her, as I did, have our own interpretations of what
ultimately killed her–a combination of unrelenting heartbreak and the
effect of being subject to a constant, unrelenting media driven hate
campaign, despite the complete legal clearing of her name in the death of
her daughter Eliza Jane in 2005, who died after taking an antibiotic, and
whose cause of death has been tortuously debated. Christine and her
husband Robin were denied the right to adopt a child, or foster a child,
due to a single article in the L.A. Times which cast her as a murderer.

Here below is the letter that Robin Scovill sent out. I ask that people try to
respect this family’s agony, and refrain from hurtful speculation in
whatever they choose to comment. We all agree that it is imperative that
an impartial and thorough autopsy bring to light all facts about Christine’s
cause of death, and the state of her immune system, and how these facts
might bring us all closer to the ultimate truth we all seek.

She had been HIV positive since 1990, and never had an AIDS defining
illness. Her foes have predictably begun their attacks, and there is already
a misleading statement from the LA County Coroner’s office, against
whom Christine was scheduled to testify two days from when she died,
stating that she had had pneumonia for six months. This is incorrect, but
helps foster the impression that it was an AIDS related pneumonia (PCP)
which is a longer term illness.

Here’s Robin Scovill:

Dear Friends,

It is with deep sorrow that I tell you my wife, Christine Maggiore died
unexpectedly on December 27th. She leaves behind our son, Charlie
and the memory of our daughter, Eliza Jane.

Christine was a beacon of hope for many people whose lives, like her
own, had been turned upside down by an HIV positive diagnosis. When
she received this devastating label in 1992, Christine—in spite of
predictions that she had five years to live—did not give up, but devoted
her life to helping others. For several years she was a public speaker for
AIDS Project Los Angeles, LA Shanti Foundation and was a founding board
member of Women At Risk.

It was in the process of trying to find a doctor that she felt comfortable
dying with that Christine starting getting conflicting information from AIDS
experts, particularly troubling in the search to save her own life. One
doctor in particular suggested that Christine retest and she finally did,
testing HIV negative, positive and indeterminate over a dozen times in
subsequent months. She was shocked. Christine took her questions and
confusion to the very AIDS organizations that she was helping to build and
their unanimous dismissal of her inquiries forced Christine to look
outward.

This series of events profoundly shook her faith in mainstream AIDS
beliefs and sent her down a rabbit hole of exploration that would challenge
everything that she had been lead to believe.

Over the subsequent years, Christine’s research put her in touch with
people all over the world whose work and commitment to open dialog and
debate caused her to rethink everything she had been taught to teach
others about HIV and AIDS. Most importantly, it led her to question the
absolute assertion that an HIV positive diagnosis meant she had to die.

In 1995, Christine set out to assemble a three-fold brochure outlining a
series of facts that had been most compelling in her search for truth. That
brochure turned into the first incarnation of her seminal book, What If
Everything You Thought You Knew About AIDS Was Wrong? It took
Christine years to unearth the many studies, writings and facts that began
to alleviate the shame and terror of her HIV diagnosis. Her desire was to
create something concise and informative and empowering that she could
give to others who had received a similar diagnosis and who were
ashamed and terrified and alone.

Christine’s book—now in it’s 4th edition— has been translated into seven
languages; her monumental work with her non-profit organization, Alive
and Well AIDS Alternatives, has redefined what we think about AIDS; and
her tireless communications, writings and pod casts have touched
thousands of lives around the world and continue to provide a beacon of
hope for anyone who lives in fear of AIDS.

In spite of Christine’s strength, she was also under tremendous pressure
and scrutiny. She often felt that she wasn’t allowed to get sick like other
people. After her daughter died in 2005 of an allergic reaction to an
antibiotic for an ear infection, the LA County Coroner—ignoring evidence
to the contrary—declared it a death from AIDS and Christine’s suffering
increased horribly. She was vilified in the world media and harassed by
outspoken opponents of her work who openly gloated that this was her
just comeuppance. She and her family endured a yearlong criminal
investigation that not only terrorized them, but also robbed them of an
opportunity to mourn the loss of their daughter. That loss was twisted into
sensationalized and mean spirited television episodes that portrayed
Christine as a quack and a murderer and ultimately as dead. Christine
never fully recovered from the unjust treatment that she received around
the loss of Eliza Jane and that treatment ultimately exhausted her.

A week and a half ago, Christine was diagnosed with bilateral pneumonia
and did not conjure the strength to overcome it. She died unexpectedly in
her home with her husband and a dear friend. Christine Maggiore’s death
is a shock and devastating blow to her family and to the thousands of
people around the world who loved and respected her.

For anyone who lives in fear of an HIV or AIDS diagnosis, Christine’s
legacy will live on. She was committed to sharing vital facts and essential
dialog that would give HIV positive people everywhere the chance to
consider a destiny that differs from the one of death and despair that they
are taught to expect. For that she was loved.

Christine will be deeply missed.

A memorial will be planned within the next couple of weeks but please join
us at our home tonight (Tuesday Dec. 30) for an informal gathering of
friends and family. Please bring your musical instruments.

We are gathering from 1pm today well into the night.

Our address is:

5806 Tobias Ave.
Van Nuys, CA 91411


http://www.deanesmay.com/2008/12/30/what-killed-christine-maggiore/

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Fintan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The maniacs are already on the loose:

Quote:
ctruth 12/30/2008 1:21:49 PM
A child murderer has died. Good.
A reason to celebrate at the end of this crappy year.

johnnyevilisbac 12/30/2008 1:29:15 PM
Good riddance to bad rubbish. Enjoy hell!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article/comments/view?f=/n/a/2008/12/30/state/n125357S10.DTL&o=2


So, it's important to counter this hysteria and demonization
if you come across such comments in your browsing.

I posted at a few places on the net.

On Dean’s World:

Quote:
Christine was truly a heroine of our age.

Her determination and commitment were inspiring. Her meticulous caution and her measured public statements on HIV/AIDS were admirable, and counterpointed the often-hysterical pronouncements of her detractors.

She faced the untimely loss of her beautiful, young daughter Eliza Jane and the subsequent unfounded campaign against her with a courage that took our breath away.

Her achievements in standing up for the right of those labelled with the catch-all diagnosis of AIDS to get medical treatment free from vested financial and medical interests, will in the fullness of time be widely celebrated.

But, knowing Christine, she would have little time for sentimentalism over her death. She would have no truck with any slacking in a campaign whose heavy toll certainly contributed to her demise. And we know what she would want us to do.

Very well then, Christine. We will continue in the spirit which you demonstrated and with our best efforts to match your courage and steadfastness.

You set a high standard, didn’t you?

Congratulations.

Now that’s what I call: a Life!

http://www.deanesmay.com/2008/12/30/what-killed-christine-maggiore/


And on The Advocate:

Quote:
The following is from an email by Christine's husband Robin Scovill.

"A week and a half ago, Christine was diagnosed with bilateral pneumonia
and did not conjure the strength to overcome it. She died unexpectedly in
her home with her husband and a dear friend."

So the pneumonia was not so-called "AIDS-related PCP Pneumonia," a
fungal infection of the lungs usually over a protracted period. It was
instead a standard bacterial pneumonia.

Christine was truly a heroine of our age. Her determination and
commitment were inspiring. She faced the untimely loss of her beautiful,
young daughter Eliza Jane and the subsequent unfounded campaign
against her with a courage that took our breath away. Her achievements
in standing up for the right of those labelled with the catch-all diagnosis of
AIDS to get medical treatment free from vested financial and medical
interests, will in the fullness of time be widely celebrated.

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid69838.asp

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Wheelie Dan



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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Location: Red Bank, New Jersey, USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the post. What a weird week for the world.

My personal intrigue is the phenomena of iatrogenisis.

Here in America the view of health is a product, and the provision of health care, an industry.
As long as the concept of 'health as a product' remains the standard, my bet is that the progress on certain chronic diseases will be not too pronounced because the long term investment in treating chronic diseases might be jepardized by a too comprehensive cure.

Of course the goals of the health industry is inclined to continue to earn as much as possible from a predictable source. That is chronic conditions, which are the cash cows of the industry.

Thanks again for bringing into view the state of affairs, and encouraging the perception of the availability of health care a matter of public service.

Keep on!
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Fintan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Wheelie Dan
As long as the concept of 'health as a product' remains the standard.....

Nailed it dude.
When sickness is profitable the outcome is predictable.
More sickness.

I've had a notion that there is a way capitalism might be recruited
to actually benefit health. If profit was made dependent on health.

That would mean using IT systems to track health outcomes.
Tracking drugs, doctors, treatments etc. and paying for
actual proven health benefits. Maybe some day.


There is a now a memorial website for Christine
and you can post a personal comment in memoriam:

Quote:


http://christinemaggiorememorial.com/

Post a Comment:
http://books.dreambook.com/chrmag4/memorial.html


Meanwhile ABC have weighed in On Christine's death.
with a lot of comments from dissident Dr. Michael Ellner.

Quote:
Death of an AIDS Skeptic
Friends Say Christine Maggiore Endured Media Stress;
Doctors Say She Caused Misery


By LAUREN COX - ABC News Medical Unit - Jan. 1, 2009

Christine Maggiore, an AIDS activist-turned-HIV/AIDS-skeptic, died in
her home Saturday of pneumonia, according to the Associated Press.


The Los Angeles coroner's office has yet to determine if her pneumonia was AIDS-related. If it was, it could serve as an ironic end to her work, promoting the idea that there is no definite link between HIV and AIDS, and that HIV tests are inaccurate.

Whatever details her autopsy reveals, Maggiore's life may prove to be more controversial than her death.

Since 1992, Maggiore founded two HIV/AIDS skeptic groups, including the Alive and Well AIDS Alternatives group in Los Angeles. Later, she traveled to Africa and is said to have personally influenced former South African President Thabo Mbeki's decision to block funding for HIV-positive pregnant women in South Africa.

Maggiore also appeared on TV, in Mothering magazine and in documentaries describing her decision to marry, have unprotected sex, and later breast-feed her two children without taking the drug AZT, which is typically prescribed to prevent an HIV transmission from mother to baby.

AIDS researchers and public health advocates have overwhelmingly condemned her work and personal life as deadly.

"They caused the death of thousands of South Africans by delaying treatment and spreading infections," said Dr. Charlie van der Horst, a professor of medicine at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill.

Van der Horst referred to a journal study that estimated 330,000 lives were lost to new AIDS infections during the time Mbeki blocked government funding of AZT treatment to mothers.

"There is a space in hell reserved for them," said van der Horst.

Other scientists have a more visceral reaction to Maggiore's cause.

"The image, on the cover of a magazine aimed at mothers, of her heavily pregnant, naked belly, daubed with a slogan 'No AZT' in red paint was one of the single sickest images the AIDS pandemic has ever seen," said John P. Moore, a professor of microbiology and immunology at the Weill Medical College of Cornell University in New York City.

At the time of the picture, Maggiore was pregnant with daughter Eliza Jane Scovill. In 2005, Eliza Jane died at age 3 of pneumonia. The Los Angeles County Coroner's office determined her death to be AIDS-related, but the Scovill family claimed Eliza Jane died from a reaction to antibiotics.

Maggiore and her husband, Robin Scovill were investigated, but never faced any charges related to the death.

A Friend Lost

Michael Ellner, a long-time friend and associate of Maggiore's, believes the stress from her loss and the public backlash to her views caused her untimely death.

"I lost somebody that I admired and loved, and I expect in the next couple of weeks that she'll be raked over the coals, even though she's dead," said Ellner, who teaches hypnosis techniques to medical professionals and is the founder of HEAL, a volunteer group that disseminates AIDS skepticism information.

Ellner met Maggiore in 1992, shortly after she received an HIV diagnosis and shortly after she met Dr. Peter Duesberg, a professor of molecular and cell biology at the University of California, Berkeley. Duesberg became known as a lone wolf in the AIDS research world for his theories that the strong, toxic nature of AZT drugs actually induces AIDS.

"She didn't match everyone else who had AIDS," said Ellner, explaining that Maggiore came to doubt mainstream AIDS research during her early years as an AIDS activist. Ellner said Maggiore never appeared to be as sick as others around her.

"There are always positions and counter-positions in science and legitimate differences of opinion," said Thomas J. Coates, the Michael and Sue Steinberg professor of global AIDS research at the University of California, Los Angeles School of Medicine. "There have been those who have questioned many links -- tobacco and cancer, emissions and global warming, circumcision and reduction of HIV risk, etc."

Coates said many big debates, such as evolution versus creationism, are not life threatening.

"People still have the right to disagree," said Coates. "But, in the case of questioning the link between HIV and AIDS, one has to ask a bigger question: What are the consequences? In the case of HIV/AIDS denialism, the consequences are death and disability and suffering and misery."

Life in the Spotlight

Ellner pins the blame for Maggiore's misery elsewhere.

This November, Ellner said Maggiore was bombarded with calls and e-mails about an episode of "Law & Order" that seemed to mimic some elements of Eliza Jane's story. The episode featured a baby who died of AIDS-related pneumonia and a mother who believed it was a reaction to an antibiotic.

"She lost a child, she was accused of murdering her child and then everything was brought up again in November," said Ellner. "This time of year, suddenly you develop the cold and flu, and with stress, that can lead to pneumonia. ... You can blame it on the HIV, but that's my opinion -- she was killed by chronic stress."

Ellner never denies that AIDS itself exists. However, he does question the accuracy of the HIV tests, he questions that HIV leads to AIDS and agrees with Duesberg that AZT causes AIDS.

"I see Christine with different eyes. The average person doesn't appreciate that she studied this issue," said Ellner.

But that does not impress van der Horst.

"There's no question that HIV causes AIDS," said van der Horst. "There's absolutely not a single credible scientist who would disagree."

Ellner said that the HIV antibody test can only detect a "footprint" of a virus that was once in the body. However, van der Horst said the antibody test can detect both -- evidence of an eradicated virus, and evidence of a "chronic" virus, like herpes or HIV that continually lives in the system.

Van der Horst also points out that doctors have a second test for HIV that can detect the virus in the blood directly -- called the HIV viral load test. With drugs, doctors see less HIV in a patient's system.

Van der Horst joined 5,000 other scientists by signing the so-called "Durban Declaration" in 2000. Developed in Durban, South Africa, the document asserted that HIV causes AIDS and that an effort to treat HIV is the best hope of fighting AIDS.

Gail Wyatt, a couple's sex therapist associated with UCLA, personally encountered Maggiore, and thinks a different approach would settle the debate.

"I was on the Ricki Lake show about four years ago speaking against Christine's insistence that she and her husband did not need to use condoms and that she did not need to be on medication," said Wyatt. "I think that pointing the finger at those who doubt they need to re-examine their resistance to obtaining care may just entrench them in their positions.

"We always need to leave the door open to those who may want to get tested, treated and protect themselves and others from HIV and AIDS," she said.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=6558202&page=1

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EddieT



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kathy,

Absolutely beautiful prayer. It gave me a moment to step back, allowed my anger to melt away, and I just thought about all of us as people, with names instead of labels.

It's an ugly world out there on those blogs. I'm out there firing away as best I can, trying to take a deep breath, focus on my aim, and help open up a curious mind. I know that it is happening somewhere just as it happened to me, and that gives me hope.

Fintan, it's comforting to see you out there fighting also. Your dedication, accuracy, and knowledge are inspiring.

Christine had a wonderful friend in you both.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christine Maggiore did NOT
have AIDS Pneumonia


Fintan Dunne presents some compelling evidence that
recently deceased Christine Maggiore was very unlikely
to have had AIDS-related PCP Pneumonia, contrary to
widspread speculation on the Internet.


LISTEN
http://AidsIsOver.com/audio/aidsisover090102.mp3

Christine's healthy respiratory function in an audio recorded just weeks prior to
her death belies implications drawn from the L.A. coroner's office statement
asserting she had been treated for pneumonia in the previous six months.

Evidence indicates Magiore was pneumonia-free as late as 10th December, making
it extremely unlikely she suffered a fatal AIDS-related pneumonia in a mere 17 days
up to the date of her death at home on the 27th December, 2008.

Furthermore, it is very rare for a person to die of pneumonia at home. The symptoms
of a severe pneumonia, including dry or wet cough, fever and/or progressive shortness
of breath mean that a pneumonia patient invariably shows up in ER suffering from
overwhelming respiratory distress, well before a life-threatening circulatory failure.

This latest evidence indicates it would be prudent not to form conclusions as to
the true cause of her death because of the significantly atypical circumstances.

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zak247



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Killed Christine Maggiore?
by Celia Farber

I got the devastating news yesterday that my very good friend Christine Maggiore died at home on December 27th, from a bout of bilateral bronchial pneumonia, that afflicted her in recent weeks, and which she was unable to overcome.

The news has been shattering to all who loved her around the world. Speaking for myself, I can say that Christine Maggiore was one of the strongest, most ethical, compassionate, intelligent, brave, funny, and decent human beings I have ever had the honor to know. I spoke to her in great depth about all aspects of life, death, love, and this battle we both found ourselves mired in, and I will be writing about her and about those conversations here, in the future. No matter what she was going through, and it was always, frankly, sheer hell–every day of her life, since 2005, she faced, acute grief, sadistic persecution, wild injustice, relentless battle, and deep betrayal–she was always there for her friends, and she never descended to human ugliness. She always tried to take the high road. She always tried to be stronger than any human being could ever be asked to be. I feared for her life, always. I feared the battle would kill her, as I have felt it could kill me, if I couldn’t find enough beauty to offset the malevolence. This is a deeply occult battle, and Christine got caught in its darkest shadows.

She had apparently been on a radical cleansing and detox regimen that had sickened her and left her very weak, dehydrated, and unable to breathe. She was shortly thereafter diagnosed with pneumonia and placed on IV antibiotics and rehydration. But she didn’t make it.

Those who loved her, as I did, have our own interpretations of what ultimately killed her–a combination of unrelenting heartbreak and the effect of being subject to a constant, unrelenting media driven hate campaign, despite the complete legal clearing of her name in the death of her daughter Eliza Jane in 2005, who died after taking an antibiotic, and whose cause of death has been tortuously debated. Christine and her husband Robin were denied the right to adopt a child, or foster a child, due to a single article in the L.A. Times which cast her as a murderer.

Here below is the letter that Robin Scovill sent out. I ask that people try to respect this family’s agony, and refrain from hurtful speculation in whatever they choose to comment. We all agree that it is imperative that an impartial and thorough autopsy bring to light all facts about Christine’s cause of death, and the state of her immune system, and how these facts might bring us all closer to the ultimate truth we all seek. She had been HIV positive since 1992, and never had an AIDS defining illness. Her foes have predictably begun their attacks, and there is already a misleading statement from the LA County Coroner’s office, against whom Christine was scheduled to testify two days from when she died, stating that she had had pneumonia for six months. This is incorrect, but helps foster the impression that it was an AIDS related pneumonia (PCP) which is a longer term illness.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We now have the sequence of events in the weeks
leading to Christine's death --via an email which
Christine sent to a friend:


Quote:
In Her Own Words,
a Dec 19 Email From Christine Maggiore


by Celia Farber

I’m told that I stand accused in Internet hate swamp sites of claiming
Christine Maggiore died “from a cleanse,” in the name of “denying” that
she died of AIDS.


She died, while suffering from bilateral bronchial pneumonia, after taking
on a de-tox cleanse, is what I reported. These people at these swampy
sites apparently can’t read, can’t decipher basic English. Every time I
report they accuse me of “denying,” but how can you be denying while
you are reporting?

Luckily there is such a thing as first hand sources. In this case, I have an
email from Christine herself, dated December 19, eight days before she
died, sent to a friend.

This friend forwarded it to me, and I am printing it here, because I knew
Christine very well and I know she would welcome it. Make of it what you
will. It certainly puts to rest the deliberate distortion of the AP story that
weirdly quotes the LA County Coroner’s Office, forbidden from touching
her body presently, stating that she suffered from pneumonia “within the
past six months.” That’s technically accurate but transparently distortive,
creating a smoke screen of a longer term illness, which suggests that they
aren’t sure somebody can succumb to AIDS in a few weeks after 16 years
of health. Why pad the few weeks into six months? Why can’t they ever
just report what is known and what it not known? That would inspire
credibility.

Outtake of Dec 19 email from
Christine to un-named recipient :


Regarding my health, I finally figured out what’s going on…but it got really
scary. Here’s the scoop I just sent a friend:I have been through the
absolute worst health nightmare ever. The cleanse, while definitely
bringing about some profound benefits, left me feeling weak and
dehydrated. I lost my appetite almost completely about 10 days ago and
for some weird reason could only tolerate hot tea and hot chicken broth.

I had been in touch with the cleanse doc who said all was typical,
uncomfortable but typical. Not one to quit, I kept going. Then I started to
have trouble breathing, I was feeling winded after the most simple task
like making the bed. This last Sunday, I stopped being able to sleep at all.

So finally, genius that I am, I made an appointment to see my MD who is
really smart and very well versed in natural health care and not at all into
the HIV paradigm.I could only get in to see her yesterday. She said I was
totally dehydrated and having a reaction to the herbs in the cleanse which
she thought were suspicious. I asked her to check my lungs and she said
they sounded clear. I told her I thought I should have a chest Xray
anyway, just to be sure, but she was skeptical because I hadn’t had a
cold, flu, cough or fever. But I insisted so she wrote me up to go to a
radiology place that would give an immediate reading.

By then I felt so ill I had to ask my neighbor to drive me and thank god
he was there with me because I never would have made it to the
radiologist without his help. As it turned out, the Xray showed a very
serious case of bi-lateral bronchial pneumonia. The doctor immediately
gave me IV rehydration, IV natural cortisone, and IV antibiotic. She said if
I did not improve by the next day, I would have to go to the hospital
which I argued would give me worse treatment, lousy food and maybe a
MRS infection as a parting gift.

I went back again today, had more IV treatments and she said if I can
make it through the weekend without having to go to the hospital, she will
be very happy. She also said I’m pretty tough to have had such severe
pneumonia and keep going. I have three natural cortisone treatments I
am to take everyday, and today I started with another antibiotic called
Z pack which is different from the one used in the IV. It’s a little scary
because she asked me if I am allergic to the antibiotics she’s giving me
but I’ve never taken them, so I don’t know. She stayed next to me during
the IV antibiotic to make sure I was not going into reaction which sort of
made me feel like I might be having a reaction! But I didn’t and I slept for
the first time since Sunday last night.My appetite is getting back to normal
and I am on total bed rest for two weeks. I can’t imagine doing otherwise.

Christine

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some inspirational comments from
other web forums and blogs re Christine:


Quote:
Don't ever give up on the truth.
If the truth is that HIV causes AIDS,
then it is the truth. If it is not. It is not.


Losing Christine is a double tragedy. It is thoroughly sufficient to lose
such a beautiful human being at all, but to lose someone like her in a
manner which can be easily contorted by the establishment and used as
almost the ultimate "case-closed" argument for anyone who is even
thinking about questioning....Well....this basically brings the open debate
concept to the doorstep of the dark ages or McCarthyism.

I just have one thing to say to anyone who is shaken by this in terms of
the HIV = AIDS question, and that is this:

If a tragedy like this shakes your conviction about the cause of AIDS, I
wonder what it was in the first place that convinced you HIV doesn't cause
AIDS?

Were you just kind of "hoping" that HIV doesn't cause AIDS? Were you
taking the statements the dissidents made at face value and just blindly
believing what the dissidents said? Because if that is the case, you have
missed the point.

This is a time to be shaken by an extremely unfortunate end of someone's
life. It is a time to be exasperated that the circumstances were so
unbelievably happenstance. It is a time to feel the pain of the transiency
of life and how good people...truly good people...don't always have the
most fair lives and are often times vilified while they are alive only to be
redeemed posthumously.

If this event shakes you for these reasons then I am with you. I am with
you more than you imagine.

But if this god damn tragedy makes you blink for one moment that HIV
might cause AIDS, then I suggest indeed that one who feels this should
just as soon go back to believing the tall tale of HIV = AIDS. Because let
me tell you and everyone else who feels a bit of doubt due to this
catastrophe something:

This ain't about faith my friend. I even make it a point when someone
says to me "so let me get this straight; you don't believe that HIV causes
AIDS." ....I ALWAYS correct them and say "well, that's almost accurate. I
don't believe either way. In fact I have no belief at all about AIDS. But I
will say I have no reason to think that HIV causes AIDS, because there is
no evidence for it. Likewise I have good reason to hold the opinion that
AIDS is not infectious. Also I have good reason to think that there is a
great deal of fraud going on in the industry, there are ample ulterior
motives as to why such a lame theory could have made it so far for so
long, and there are plenty of pieces of evidence that go unexamined by
the establishment and for predictable reasons."

This is NOT a faith issue. But it's amazing how some of us get when faced
with what appears to be cognitive dissonance.

Don't worry though. If you thought being a dissident was hard and
alienating, boy, just you wait.

This whole movement is about to be rocked like a small boat which
ventured into Poseidon's angry waters.

If you are not well informed enough with the facts and if you don't get the
science and if you don't have the guts to fight for what's right and hold
truth as the ultimate authority you will be broken from this movement.
Either by your own choice or through the pressures of the status quo.

My suggestion is to save yourself the time. If this tragedy has given you
enough doubt to even verbalize it or post a forum response about it....you
might as well call it quits, indeed.

For the rest of us, who are not FAITHFUL dissidents, but REASONED
dissidents, we all have to understand the consequences of what just
happened.

I find it so hard to mourn for Christine while at the same time foresee and
try and prepare for the vicious attacks and slander and libel that is going
to come about her and on each of our own behalfs, but this is what it is.

It is an absolute shame that so much vitriol had to be endured by her for
the latter part of her prematurely-ended life, and it is going to be even
more bitter to see this poor woman's life be completely torn to shreads.
And it will be. All we have to do...is give up. "I know she wants us to be
strong - but this is getting to me"

That's the attitude of someone who is either not informed enough, or a
coward.

Either way, that is not a dissident.

You're damn right she wants us to be strong.

What's more, she DESERVES, and her family DESERVES our best efforts
at standing up for them, and for her memory.

How can we even have a doubt right now about the cause of her death?
What I am pissed off and depressed about is the fact that she's gone.
Not HOW.

I challenge everyone on this forum to find something that means
ANYTHING to them in this world. If it's not rethinking AIDS fine, whatever
it is, do it and do it like you mean it.

But if one of the passions you have is getting the truth to come out about
this piece of junk science, then dammit lets get something done and stop
screwing around.

Who knows how much longer this very internet we are using is going to be
so free and independent. Don't hold your breath for Barack Obama or any
other multi-million dollar puppet to change things.

It's far too easy in this world to see bloody murder in the streets and turn
away. For whatever reason: Fear, feeling that you aren't strong enough to
do anything about it any way, rationalizing risk-benefits of stepping in,
waiting for the guy next in line to make the move...whatever the reason
may be.

Instead of putting our morals and principles on our car bumpers, perhaps
it's time...it HIGH TIME, to start putting them in our actions.

I already have plenty of things planned which require no coordination and
no large sums of money. Just effort.

There are of course things that are easier to accomplish with greater
numbers. For instance getting this to be talked about in the mainstream
media more, getting politicians to listen, reaching out to people who have
been hit by a false diagnosis and so on.

I don't think I can stand to see this disgusting world swallow up another
Christine Maggiore. If we all don't actually get something accomplished
soon this whole movement is nothing but a social networking group. We
might as well be a Saturday Morning Weavers and Knitters group.

If I am indeed the only person who feels this way, I can't feel ashamed.
I can't feel let down.

I am still going to do what I know needs to be done. I only speak on this
subject in this way because I know how complacency can be. In a game
of tug of war it is not too long before both sides loosen the grip, relax the
knees and pretend that the struggle is the same intensity as during the
opening moments of the match.

I have fallen subject to this deflation brought about by gradualism. So in
case others are in the same boat, I say this for you. We have to end this
damn hoax. It's time. It's been time. It's not about believing. It has
nothing to do with faith at all and we know it.

What's stopping us from destroying this pathetic lie and making it an
asterisk in the history books.

Good night, and it has been a privilege reading many of the posts on this
site over the recent times.

-mario c
Link


Quote:
As a criminal investigator who has completed several thousand
investigations, I’ve only been criticized and attacked by criminal suspects.
Good citizens do not attack police officers for doing their jobs.


So when the pharmaceutical industry attacked me for investigating their
allegations that Peter Duesberg is guilty of killing millions of Africans, I
was pretty alarmed. If their allegations were true, why would they not
want me to investigate their claims and why wouldn’t they welcome my
independent confirmation?

If Christine Maggiore, Celia Farber, Peter Duesberg, and others were
simply crazy, they’d be ignored like flat-earthers and Wiccans.

The fact that these pharmaceutically-funded hate websites exploit deaths
like EJ’s and Christine’s ONLY suggests that Christine and others are on
the right track.

The fact that these white-coated Dr. Melenges use hate groups and the
false epithet of "denialism" to respond to these unanswered questions only
suggests that there is something very wrong with HIV and AIDS science.
The noisier they get, the more troubling the unanswered questions
become.

To end the controvery, Gallo and the pharmaceutical industry need do
nothing more than explain exactly how scientists proved that HIV attacks
cells and causes AIDS. Until they do, the fact that thousands of injuries
and deaths may have unnecessarily occurred because of the profitable
delivery of DNA inhibitor drugs may be the result of the deadliest fraud
and systematic poisoning in American history.

If this is the deadly fraud it appears to be, I could understand why
thousands of young PhDs would want to pay off their astronomical college
loans with high-paying pharmaceutial jobs. And once they discovered the
lie, I would understand why they would keep quiet.

My only other question is WHERE IS THE JEFFREY WIGAND OF THE
PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY? Isn’t there ONE scientist with a conscience
in that industry, or is everyone a coward?

This is why Christine Maggiore was so dangerous - as a former peddler of
HIV Testing and AIDS science, her desire to seek the truth and endure the
pharmaceutical retaliation at such a great personal cost made her a
significant target of hatred.

If after six years in the Marine Corps and twenty on the LAPD revealed
one real hero to me, that hero would be Christine Maggiore. Her tireless
work and boundless energy finally caught up with her. I am as saddened
by her passing as the pharmaceutical industry is celebratory.

Clark Baker

Link


Quote:
You must remember as well as I do the dire warnings we were
all taught about HIV in the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s.
This was one of the deadliest pathogens mankind had ever seen.
It spread sexually, and was an instant death sentence to anyone
who was infected–with near 100% fatality.


So why is her husband HIV-? Why is her son? Why is there no positive HIV
test on her daughter? Why was she alive and healthy SEVENTEEN YEARS
without any chemotherapy? Only to succomb, at the age of 52, to a type
of pneumonia that commonly kills over 100,000 Americans a year?

I put it to you thusly: let’s pretend HIV really is a deadly pathogen. As
deadly as we were all told 10, 15, 20 years ago. How did she make it
those 17 years, all of them in good health until the very end? What do
YOU make of the fact that she tested positive, tested negative, and tested
inconclusive for HIV multiple times?

As for the nastiness and the hatefulness: I can’t begin to document it for
you now in this comment. I’ve covered it many times on this blog, but I
lack the energy to dig up all the links right now. But I knew Christine
personally. Not as a close friend, but from multiple phone calls and email
exchanges. Christine had lost all faith in conventional medical science, in
part because nothing they’d told her of her supposed HIV status made any
damned sense, and she was too stubborn to stop asking questions and
demanding answers before she put herself (or her children) on any drug
regimen. This DID, over time, lead to her investigating so-called
"alternative medicine" for a lot of things: why wouldn’t she? Standard
medical science had given her bad advice, advice she could OBJECTIVELY
PROVE QUESTIONABLE, time and time again.

Christine believed in vegetarianism. I don’t, I think it’s unhealthy and
unnatural. She was into the whole vitamins, herbal supplements,
"cleansing" side of alternative medicine, most of which I also think is junk.

But I never could blame her: conventional medical science had obviously,
from her frame of reference, already fed her a bunch of junk.

17 years disease-free, Sean, and then she suddenly dies of COMMON (not
AIDS-defining) pneumonia, and even you now unquestioningly accept that
she must have died of AIDS. Ignoring her decade-and-a-half of good
health without any chemotherapy. Ignoring her still-stubbornly HIV-
husband, who never used condoms with his wife. Despite her HIV- son.
Despite her daughter’s equally-indeterminate HIV status.

Here’s one of the things I’ve learned about HIV: I’m pretty sure HIV
doesn’t do much of anything. I admit I may be wrong. Even if I was
wrong, Christine’s case raises some really important questions anyway: at
rock bottom, the biggest question is, "is this infection an automatic death
sentence, as we’ve all been taught for 25 years?"

Finally, as for the charge of "conspiracy": tell me, Sean, what in this
discussion is different in your mind from those who question the Global
Warming hypothesis? Because you must have noticed by now that those
who question the Global Warming hypothesis are also demonized,
ostracized, called "deniers," and even lose funding as scientists. You don’t
see any parallel there?

To document the hate that’s been poured out upon Christine, I will leave it
for another day to document it for you. It’s been abundant. I myself, just
for being willing to play host to debates on the matter, have been vilified
by many, many sources, and left a quite raw from it.

Just look what they’re doing to Celia. Celia calmly reports facts, and is
accused of all sorts of hateful things merely for doing that.

In quite recent years, we’ve seen all sorts of incredible news on HIV.
Again and again and again, those pushing the paradigm have been caught
out as making extreme claims that can’t be supported. We know now–we
KNOW–that HIV is not a big threat to the general heterosexual population.
We KNOW this, this isn’t something I made up. We KNOW now that there
are people running around HIV+ who have been symptom-free for over
25 years. We KNOW now that the cocktail chemotherapy drugs are lethal,
and we KNOW there are people who refused those chemotherapy drugs
who are healthy and normal DECADES after their diagnosis.

Oh, and we also KNOW now, beyond question, that the numbers on HIV in
Africa were terrifically inflated–the establishment admitted that too, just
within the last few years.

For the record, I don’t need to invoke any grand "conspiracy" theories. I
firmly believe that the vast majority of medical professionals, and most
scientifically respectable investigators, have never had anything but the
best intentions on this whole thing. If there was any "conspiracy," it does
not involve the Jews or the Freemasons or the Catholic Church or the CIA
or the Communists or any of that shit. If there was any "conspiracy," it
involved Robert Gallo and a few of his friends–and their motivation was no
more than pride (and, yes, money), and a few cowardly editors at
Science, Nature, and PNAS.

But I can’t prove a negative to you.

Here’s what I would suggest to you is a possible way to
view this whole thing:

In the early to mid 1980s, a bunch of gay men were diagnosed with a
bunch of weird symptoms: they had Kaposi’s Sarcoma, pneumocystis
pneumonia, and other weird infections that were normally very rare in the
general population. No one was sure what was hitting them. Then a
relatively young scientist named Robert Gallo proposed that a recent
virus–of a then-rare type called a retrovirus–suggested that one particular
retrovirus might be the culprit. And, early tests indicated something
significant: it looked like about half of those early AIDS patients were
positive for that particular retrovirus.

Of the other half that did not test positive for that retrovirus, they were
shunted aside and given their own separate diagnosis. Those who were
dying of the same symptoms (PCP, KS, etc.) who tested positive for this
one retrovirus were labeled as having "idiopathic cytopathic lymphoma,"
and otherwise ignored. They died within a few weeks anyway, and were
never heard about again.

Peter Duesberg, a man who was instrumental in proving the very
existence of the beastie called a "retrovirus," said it was impossible. If you
ask him today he’ll say the same thing: even though he helped prove the
very existence of a retrovirus, he says it’s nearly impossible for a
retrovirus to cause disease anyway. Not impossible, but extremely
unlikely. And now I have to ask you: how many diseases other than HIV
have you ever heard cause any deadly disease? It’s now 2009, and you
MUST remember that we were told the retrovirus was the scary type of
pathogen that might bring untold new diseases to the human race–and
yet, in the vast scheme of things, how many other retrovirus-caused
ailments can you name? And, frankly, how many people do YOU
PERSONALLY know who’ve died of HIV?

This was supposed to be the most lethal virus mankind had ever seen.
Only suddenly: not.

How many people dead from HIV do you personally know, Sean? For
something that’s sexually transmitted? I’ll bet that you know more people
who’ve got herpes simplex II (which is not a retrovirus) than you know
HIV+ people.

What, you think all that "safe sex" literature just made everyone more
cautious, and therefore the most lethal pathogen in human history was
stopped dead in its tracks, even though syphilis, ghonorrhea, and herpes
are as common as they’ve ever been?

Ah, I can’t keep going. There’s boatloads of information on this, and most
of it does not require a grand conspiracy theory. It does not require you
to join a movement. It just requires you to engage your own analytic
thinking skills.

Here’s what I propose, Sean: go out on some of these blogs and sites,
and engage your own (considerable, as I know) skeptical faculties, and
just ask these people, "can you explain to me in plain black and white why
HIV causes AIDS and is absolutely deadly?"

Come back to me and tell me your results. My guess, knowing you, is that
you’ll come back to me in a few weeks and say "wow Dean, this really is
weird."

Go ahead. Do it. Spend a few cycles of your spare time over the next few
weeks simply engaging your own intellectual curiosity. Just put your full
effort as a very good skeptic asking these folks to prove it to you. Ask
whatever questions you want, however you want to ask them. Just
remember a few basic things:

Viruses are just strangs of DNA/RNA that invade a cell and reproduce
themselves. And, every single one of us (including you) has multiple
viruses running around in their system right now. Which we do: you, me,
and everyone reading this has multiple viruses running through our
systems at all times. Check if you don’t believe me: you, Sean Golden, at
this moment have multiple viruses running around in your system, just
like you have multiple bacteria running around in your system. It proves
NOTHING about your health status if I can isolate a single virus or
bacterium running around in your system. We’ve all got a ton of those.
Only a few actually cause disease. You are a carrier of countless bugs
every damned day–we all are.

So, knowing that, what is the proof if we isolate any particular bug in your
system? And what is the proof of those who carry HIV (originally dubbed
HTLV-III) are going to have their immune systems destroyed?

If you’re interested, I challenge you to do it. All you gotta do is go out to
these sites that all claim Christine was done in by HIV, and respectfully
ask how they know it was HIV that done it.

Report back. I’ll put it on the front page if you want me to.

Dean Esmay

Link

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Fintan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 6504

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christine Maggoire
Did Not Die of AIDS


AidsIsOver.com - 4th January, 2009

Based on an emerging time line of her illness, there is now increasing certainty that AIDS skeptic, Christine Maggiore did not suffer from from AIDS-related PCP pneumonia. There is also considerable doubt that her death was due to respiratory failure --the common cause of a fatal outcome resulting from a pneumonia infection.

Journalist, Celia Farber has published an email from Christine to a personal friend on the 19th December -- eight days prior to her untimely demise.

The email makes clear that her health problems were associated with her commencing a therapeutic cleanse. An extract follows (my capitalization):

"Regarding my health, I finally figured out what’s going on… but it got really scary. Here’s the scoop I just sent a friend: I have been through the absolute worst health nightmare ever. THE CLEANSE, while definitely bringing about some profound benefits, LEFT ME FEELING WEAK AND DEHYDRATED. I LOST MY APPETITE COMPLETELY ALMOST 10 DAYS AGO and for some weird reason could only tolerate hot tea and hot chicken broth. I had been in touch with the cleanse doc who said all was typical, uncomfortable but typical. Not one to quit, I KEPT GOING. Then I started to have trouble breathing...."
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=53660#53660

The above extract clearly shows that Christine's health problems started with the 'cleanse.' Complete loss of appetite was a serious development, indicating the severe impact of the cleanse on her metabolism. She writes that she had contacted the cleanse doctor, was reassured and "kept going." A fatal decision, in retrospect.

Let's allow a couple of days during which Christine "kept going" with the cleanse. Only then does she write of breathing difficulty beginning:

"Then I started to have trouble breathing, I was feeling winded after the most simple task like making the bed. This last Sunday, I stopped being able to sleep at all. So finally, genius that I am, I made an appointment to see my MD..."

We don't know the date in December on which she began the cleanse, but we now have enough information to construct a rough time line:

Dec ?th: Begins 'cleanse'.
Dec 6th: Weak and exhausted.
Dec 9th: Total appetite loss.
Dec 10th: Records an audio with David Crowe.
Dec 11th: Contacts cleanse doctor, continues cleanse.
Dec 13th: Breathlessness begins.
Dec 14th: No longer able to sleep.
Dec 15th: Makes appointment with regular physician.
Dec 18th: Sees physician, pneumonia diagnosed.
Dec 27th: Deceased.

Now let's take a look at Christine's description of the visit with her doctor:

"She said I was totally dehydrated and having a reaction to the herbs in the cleanse which she thought were suspicious. I asked her to check my lungs and she said they sounded clear. I told her I thought I should have a chest Xray anyway, just to be sure, but she was skeptical because I hadn’t had a cold, flu, cough or fever. But I insisted so she wrote me up to go to a radiology place that would give an immediate reading."

There we have an informed medical opinion that Christine's health problems were, in the words of her doctor: "a reaction to the herbs in the cleanse which she thought were suspicious."

Of further medical significance is that on Dec 18th her lungs, again in the words of her doctor, "sounded clear." Also significant is the atypical absence of cough or fever.

All this confirms the thrust of an audio I presented, that Christine's audibly healthy respiratory function in broadcasts recorded just weeks prior to her death belies implications drawn from the L.A. coroner's office statement asserting she had been treated for pneumonia in the previous six months.

LISTEN : http://AidsIsOver.com/audio/aidsisover090102.mp3

We have a period of 14 days from the start of breathlessness to death. That is inconsistent with AIDS-related PCP Pneumonia, which typically has a much longer progression.

Furthermore, and this is again of great significance, her condition was under medical review, with the question of a possible hospital admission being on her doctor's agenda. Again quoting from Christine's email:

"She said if I did not improve by the next day, I would have to go to the hospital..... I went back again today, had more IV treatments and she said if I can make it through the weekend without having to go to the hospital, she will be very happy."

Any worsening of Christine's condition and her doctor would have consigned Christine to hospital quicker than you can say "ER".

In fact, the reverse happened. She immediately improved:

"...I slept for the first time since Sunday last night. My appetite is getting back to normal..."

As those with a medical background will know, it is virtually unheard of for a pneumonia patient to die at home. Invariably, mortality occurs in ICU on a ventilator:

Quote:
http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/162/2/393
Improvements in Outcomes of Acute
Respiratory Failure for HIV PC Pneumonia
We examined ICU use and outcomes for patients with acute respiratory failure from PCP from 1995 to 1997.... Among 1,660 patients with confirmed or presumed PCP, 155 (9%) received mechanical ventilation for respiratory failure.... In conclusion, from 1995 to 1997, hospital survival after PCP requiring mechanical ventilation was approximately 40%
.
Christine's medical issues were in response to the 'cleanse'. A medical opinion supports that. Her pneumonia was improving. There was no ICU admission, thus no death from respiratory failure. Further investigation may reveal the actual proximate cause of death.

I hope those who jumped to conclusions about the cause of Christine's death will withdraw and apologize for that presumption. They should have waited until the facts began to emerge. Their intemperance spurred others into vindictive public comments on the Internet which have been very distressing to Christine's bereaved extended family.

The comment by the L.A coroner's office to the L.A. Times that Christine had been treated for pneumonia "in the last six months", is inexplicable and entirely unsupported by the emerging facts.

Such a long period of treatment would have been consistent with an AIDS PCP pneumonia. Given that Christine was about to begin a legal action against L.A. coroner Dr James K Ribe, the question of whether coroner's office comment was malicious in intent is an open one. But there is no evidence it was. It is entirely possible it was an unintentional error.

However, if it were to have been malicious, it would open up the possibility of a successful legal action for the entirely predictable distressing consequences for Christine's bereaved relatives of such a prejudicial statement.

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