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Pope of the New World Holy Order
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Jerry Fletcher

Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suffer from a rare affliction that causes my leisure time to be spent contemplating the relationship between CHURCH and STATE.

After some serious R & R, I've come to this conclusion.

GOD grants authority to the LAW.

The LAW grants authority to the STATE.

The STATE grants authority to the CHURCH.

The CHURCH grants authority to GOD.

CHURCH and STATE are two interdependent elements of a larger, self justifying, control paradigm.

They don't exist independently.
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Jerry Fletcher

Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 837
Location: Studio BS

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I was saying...
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

The country is situated in the British Isles in western Europe.
The population is 59.2 million as of 2003.

The capital city is London.

The administrative divisions consist of four historical and geographical areas – England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. There are 39 counties, six metropolitan counties and a special administrative entity, London, in England.

There are eight counties in Wales, 26 districts in Northern Ireland and 12 regions in Scotland. The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are independent administrative entities.
The official language is English.
The currency is the pound sterling (£1 = 100 pence since 1970).

The political system is a constitutional monarchy. There is no constitution in the country. A set of parliamentary acts, constitutional customs and certain court orders are used instead.

The head of state is the monarch who has the exclusive right to appoint the prime minister and authorize him or her to form the government and open the sessions of parliament. Under the Act of Settlement of 1701, the British monarch must be a member of the Church of England.  The current monarch is Elizabeth II who was enthroned on February 6, 1952.

The legislative power is exercised by the monarch and parliament. Parliament consists of two houses – the House of Lords and the House of Commons. The House of Lords consists of representatives of aristocracy, peers, both hereditary and life peers as well as law lords who are top court members and Anglican bishops – in all, 25 Anglican archbishops and bishops. The House of Lords was reformed in 1999, which put an end to hereditary peers. The hereditary right to be a member of the Lords and vote until the second phase of the reform was retained by 102 hereditary peers, of whom 92 were granted the right through secret ballot by their aristocratic colleagues, with 10 caving in to the government’s ultimatum to switch the hereditary peerage for life one. The right to participate in the work of the House of Lords was retained by the lords who were given their peerage by the monarch in recognition of their personal services and on advice of the government. The House of Lords is the highest court of appeal.


The executive power is exercised by the government headed by the prime minister who is appointed by the monarch. The members of the government must be members of parliament. The current premier is Anthony Blair.

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Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 840
Location: minime-rica

PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no more heredity in the peerage, but hey, anyone can buy a peerage (plenty of scandal relating to that here of late)...police interviewing politicians and such

...and offspring of lords tend to have lots of money

if you donate money to a political party, you often find yourself in the embarrasing position of being offered a peerage, neat hey ?

i used to think that royalty was only rubber stamping the prime minister, but i'm not so sure now what with these supposed bilderberg vettings and royalty joining in those particular meetings

with no actual constitution, and parliament apparently only too pleased to give any crazy law the go-ahead, politics looks less and less like something the voter an affect in any way, they may as well just scrap elections for all the damn difference it makes

but you all know how that feels, right ?
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Location: London , UK

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedMahna wrote:
i am unclear about how it evolved to constatine's conquering the roman empire, or whether he was only part of their demise.

Early Christianity is something I've been reading about for a year or so, so it's an interest of mine. The official history is that the Apostles of Jesus established the Church, and that Gnostic Christianity was a weird heretical fringe group. But a growing number of scholars today are starting to believe that this story is nothing more than political propoganda, and the the Gnostics were the ones who invented an earlier version of Christianity which was later hijacked and distorted by Emperors like Constantine for political purposes.

In the early days Jews were not 'converted' to Christianity. The Jews invented it. Around the Mediterranian 2000 years ago there were many popular cults that flourished that are now called the mystery religions, which can be traced back to the cult of Osiris in Egypt. All of these cults centered around a fantastic tale of a Godman who performs miracles and is persecuted by the state, and who resurrects. The rituals involved initiates taking the role of the Godman, and then causing some extreme shift of consciousness (fasting, sleep deprivation, drinking wine, taking mushrooms, ritual sex, and so on), and at some point the initiate would go through a kind resurrection himself, and he would obtain Gnosis, or direct knowledge of spirit.

I know many on the forum here think religion is bad and that it's only purpose is a mind control program. It often gets hijacked and that's what it becomes, but if you study it you can see that many of the world's religions had profound roots that really were interested in obtaining knowledge that led to individualism, freedom, and creativity.

It's very likely that there never was a historical Jesus. Considering that nearly every element of the Jesus story was found in surrounding Mystery School myths, what appears to have happened is that a group of Greek educated Jews saw that their own religion was looking a bit out of date. So they took one of their characters, Josua (in Greek, Jesus), and created a mystery school myth of their own that was a combination of other popular myths. There was never an intention to "fake history", they were just following the popular religious practice of creating myths and reinacting those myths in ritual. The ideal was to go to the temple and BECOME Jesus, not worship or bow down to him.

Some of Gnostic Christianity spread of it's own accord, but there probably was a PR effort to spread Gnostic Christianity that had some money behind it, because it wasn't uncommon for statemen to join these very popular cults and want to spread their favorite.

But some crazies started a new deceptive PR campaign in the competitive religious marketplace of the time. They started to say there myth was actual HISTORY, and not just myth. Now whether this was done consciously or it was just wishful thinking, it's hard to tell.

It was this distorted version of Christianity that Constantine ceased upon as a political tool. His mother followed this brand of literal, dumbed down Christianity, so he knew about it from her. The official account says that this brand of Chrisitianity spread of it's own accord, but this is totally bogus. Once Constantine ceased it, he spread it by force, detroying the competition by destroying books and using torture.

So it's clear that the Roman Catholic Church is a political institution, nothing more, while the original Christians were truly spiritual and that the original religion was profound.

Something I'd like to add about secret societies (Knights Templar, Freemasons) and the interpretations of people like Alex Jones, David Icke, and Alan Watt: it's looks to me that these societies are versions of the mystery religions. I haven't studied them as much, but they have the same basic rituals of initiates lying in a tomb and resurrecting again. You will find these stone sarcophagi in the Pyramids -- they weren't tombs for the kings as we are often told, they were ritual chambers for mystery ritual initiates. For one thing, I don't find anything sinister about these religions. And two, even though they can be traced back to Egypt, it can't be said that you're looking at one unbroken religious line. Three, I don't believe these groups were designed as centres of political power, but they got hijacked, and eventually devolved into old boys networking clubs.

So I find the speculation about "secret societies controlling the world" absurd. I find the fact that the founders of the United States were Freemasons as a GOOD thing. I think their involvement in this cult led to their strong belief in freedom and individualism, something that "true" Gnosticism produces, and I think their effort to instill these values into a new country was sincere. But like it often does, these brief bursts of evolution gets hijacked, distorted, and destroyed by the powers that be.

The good news is that the push for individualism and freedom has never died. It keeps poping back up, challenging the repressive powers of the state, each time pushing humanity forward. It's always 2 steps forward, and 1 step back, and it's a VERY slow process. That's something to keep in mind. The Empires have always rose up to opress, but the little people with souls have always continued quietly to raise the consciousness of humanity behind the scenes, bit by bit, just by being strong individuals that wouldn't submit.
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Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 1512
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks, urbanspaceman... that more or less makes a lot of sense.
from the jewish side of the family, they seem to hold to a version that jesus may actually have lived, but was extremely knowledgeable in various ancient spiritual practices.. perhaps those were some you mentioned that may have been precursory christianity, but may also have involved ideas from the orient and persia (zoroastrianism), kabala, and stuff that moses learned from his stepfather's priests.
then he played it out on the world's stage.
whatever, it doesn't matter how exacting the above is, except the truth is - as you politely stated - this religion was hijacked, and thus used as a powerplay becoming both political and profitable.
no doubt constantine was a major player. just don't know the whole history of his climb to emperor, or whatever he saw himself as. i'll have to explore that one.
btw, it's also convenient when rulers need to break a religious law, they just make a new spin-off religion, so as not to seem like the very sinners they have to go around punishing. say like henry the viii.
which brings me to one of thousands of inconsistencies in our modern day government, that so loves to call itself a christian country. but i'll let everyone else think of their favorite pet-peeve and accompanying politician-sinner.
whichever you think of and whoever your accused is, just remember to add "but they are forgiven" to the verdict.
church plays doublespeak bigtime... shit, i did it again!!! sorry, wrong thread, dammit....

just cos things are fucked up doesn't mean it isn't progress...
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 325
Location: London , UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's my attitude these days too. It doesn't really matter if Jesus existed or not to be a Christian, because the mythography is much more important than some story about a guy. If you find that the myth resonates with you, you will find it's not history but an early form of depth psychology. And history that happened 2000 years ago, nothing can be certain. We on this forum are having trouble figuring out 5 years ago!

But some interesting tidbits: The Mediterranean area 2000 years ago was a very multicultural society. Because of Alexander the Great and his conquering ways, most everyone spoke Greek -- similar today how English has become the international language because of the British and American Empires. It has it's upsides because everyone from different cultures can communicate. That's why the New Testament was written in Greek (and in educated Greek, mind you, which is why it's likely why the stories were written down by Jews who went to Greek university, not by some peasants you supposedly only spoke Aramaic). So religious ideas were definately being shared. There are stories of Brahmans and Buddhists visiting the library at Alexandria. There is no need to concoct a history about Jesus visiting India, because all those ideas were "in the air" in the Greco-Roman world.

There may have been a historical Jesus. But like I said, the New Testament doesn't look like the story of his life, because every 'scene' can pretty much be traced back to other religions.

The common practice was to live out a myth in ritual, and to take on the identity of your God. So some have speculated that sometimes when we read "Jesus said" this, or "Jesus said" that, that it was a Christian in a trance or ecstastic state spouting wisdom. So some of the sayings could have been spoken by flesh and blood people, but in the trance state it was believed that the words were being channeled from God, hence that guy didn't say it, "Jesus said" it.

Either way, Jesus is likely a composite.

Anyway, it's a very interesting subject, because there was dirty politics then just like now. The path to form the powerful Roman Catholic Church was paved with everything from forged documents to Mafia style hits and grusome torture. So the Bush crime family and the Pope are 2 peas in a pod, that's for sure.
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