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urbanspaceman
Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 323
Location: London , UK
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 Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Fintan wrote: | | It's about the best summary of the different types of life and creation cycles I've seen in such a relatively short overview. |
Thanks Fintan, I appreciate that. I did my best not to go off on tangents in this vast subject!
| Fintan wrote: | | ...you may be misinterpreting Calleman's analysis...Sounds like you haven't actually read his books. |
I admit freely that I have not read his books, so weigh my opinion accordingly. I don't feel I'm speaking completely out of school, though, as I've absorbed a fair bit of what's available by and about Calleman online. I've used a bit of hyperbole, but I don't think I've misrepresented him.
| Fintan wrote: | | Calleman is not talking about instant salvation in late 2011. |
He certainly reads that way...
In this excerpt he states clearly that he believes BY 2011 (not beginning in 2011) there will be no conflict, government, nor time, with perhaps an adjustment period during 2012:
| Quote: | By 2011, the dominance of the dualist mind will wither, and all the conflicts of humanity originating in the lower levels of consciousness will be resolved. From the perspective of the enlightened state, the old order will no longer be real...By then, not only the old monarchic rule, but also democracy, will be things of the past. (If everyone lives in unity and harmony with the Divine, why elect someone to rule them?) All hierarchies will have crumbled...there will be no need for government...All human beings will, in a much deeper sense than at present, be recognized as having equal value -- each as her or his own manifestation of the Divine...There will no longer be separation between human beings and God...
...the year 2012 may also be a period during which many people will have to find ways of adapting to the new frame of cosmic consciousness. If nothing else, we will need to adapt to the fact that everyone around us is now enlightened...
[from 'The Nine Underworlds', 2003, p84-86 in "The Mystery of 2012"] |
That certainly sounds more than a 'slow brightening', or just a gentle start to a spiritual age.
[An aside. The idea that 'full enlightenment' exists, that a person can become perfect all of a sudden, is psychological naive. Ken Wilber has written extensively on this. 'Lower level conflicts' are not automatically resolved from a divine unity experience...in fact, sometimes it can make those conflicts worse!]
Calleman is presenting his work as a positive message that counters the 2012 doomsday fear-mongering. But this is not cured by it's opposite -- wishful thinking and false hopes passed off as science -- no matter how well intentioned. But ironically, Calleman has his own disturbing brand of fear-mongering. Those that do not align themselves to his divine plan on schedule are excluded from his vision of Heaven!
| Quote: | As a corollary, to wait around to see what will happen in the year 2012 is to miss the point totally. It will simply not be possible not to be enlightened after October, 2011, or at least not from a certain time afterward when the new reality has definitely manifested...
[also from "The Nine Underworlds'] |
| Quote: | As people become aware of this those that wish for the world to come to a balance will hope that October 28, 2011 is the end date. Those that want Western dominance to be perpetuated on the other hand will wish for a final strengthening of the West to occur during the year 2012, and so will set the end point at Dec 21, 2012.
http://alignment2012.com/fiasco.html |
Does this 'you're either with us or against us' attitude mesh with a prophecy of unity and harmony? 'If you don't agree with my interpretation, you either won't get into Heaven, or you'll ruin Heaven on Earth for the rest of us'? It rings of hypocrisy. It's stuck in the dualism that he promotes will soon be overcome. It's the same old Christian Judgement Day, with a new twist.
I think Calleman is much more of a hard-liner than you, Fintan.
| Fintan wrote: | | It's not a question of profane material planetary systems versus esoteric non-physical spirituality. The Mayan calendrical timescales are purely physical ones. |
It seems clear to me that Calleman believes Mayan system has little to do with the physical.
| Quote: | I would then like to give a clear answer to his question: No, the Mayan prophetic science of time can not be based on astronomy. And I could make this statement even stronger: If somebody implies that the purpose of the calendar is to predict some kind of physical or astronomical event, such as for instance a solstice, there is every reason to expect that he or she is off the mark. Prophecy can only be based on the existence of a divine plan, and this divine plan, which governs the evolution of consciousness, is primary to all of its physical manifestations. Material manifestations such as planetary movements, etc, in fact are the creations of the divine plan and so play no causative roles in this.
http://www.calleman.com/content/articles/end_date.htm |
Again, I think this is an opinion that is caught in the dualism he thinks we will all overcome in 2011. He says we will do away with hierarchy...by enforcing the hierarchical relationship between the physical and the spiritual!
To the mature astrologer, there is no causal relationship between the physical and the spiritual, not exactly. They are one and the same from an elevated perspective. The astrologer is looking to astronomical events for what has 'crystallised' from the spiritual realm, to get clues as to what is happening in the deeper and subtler world. The idea is to observe the visible heavens, and meditate on their deeper meaning. The deeper wave patterns manifest as consciousness AND physical objects...they are one substance, just different densities, like water vapour and ice.
I doubt the Mayans disconnected prophecy and astronomy because, if they are like many ancient cultures, they understood their unity. After all, isn't the base unit of the calendar a 'kin', one revolution of the Earth, a physical, astronomical event? The earth's rotation is in harmony with Calleman's divine plan, but other astronomical events are not?
| Fintan wrote: | | Thousands of years ago the Mayans had figured that we would be at the Galactic level in the late 20th century and the Universal level from around 2012. |
2 questions need to be answered before being confident in such a claim:
1. Is Calleman reporting accurately what the Mayans believed?
2. Are we confident about the dates Calleman gives for major historical events, which his whole mathematical scheme rests on?
I'll let others answer the first question, because I'm out of my depth discussing the Mayan calendar or Mayan culture. In summary, there is a lot of noise on the net that much of what Calleman presents is his own invention, not a reconstruction of tradition. For example:
| Quote: | I've checked with Calleman personally, and after much resistance to him answering my questions, he did admit he has had no endorsement from any indigenous mayans thats he is an authority on anything mayan or that his version of the calender is the true one... its all self proclaimed rhetoric.
http://2012.tribe.net/thread/254036f2-8704-40ef-ad24-aa075a3fd70a |
| Quote: | plus, the underworlds and days and nights and all that interpretative stuff originate with the Calleman Matrix, not Maya tradition and from what i've read his sources are more aztec than maya as far as the ruling deities and stuff...
you can still use their information for the traditional tzolkin, but as soon as you use it to support like "The 5th Night" and galctic underworlds and all that stuff, it's not traditional
http://2012.tribe.net/thread/254036f2-8704-40ef-ad24-aa075a3fd70a |
So I would point out, if there was no 'Galactic Level' in Mayan tradition, they certainly could not have predicted it's arrival in the future.
Bardobeing made this comment above that brings up my second question:
| bardobeing wrote: | | Carl appears to accept as undisputed fact, without offering a qualification, that the dates and accounts of historical events that he uses to evidence predictions of the Mayan Calendar (eg: biblical events, Sumarian events, etc.) happened as described, where described and when described. |
In my own investigations, I've learned to look on extreme scepticism with any dating that goes back beyond 50,000 years. All dating methods are based on a house of cards of a few assumptions that could be wrong. Do we really think anyone KNOWS what date the universe began? Do we even know it had a beginning? The Big Bang Theory is a religious belief in drag. Milo Wolff, a physicist and a BreakForNews guest, has said numerous times that the red shift which modern cosmologists use to estimate the age of the universe might not be a Doppler effect, which could undermine the entire theory that galaxies are flying away from each other. You have also recently mentioned the expanding earth theory, beautifully demonstrated by Neal Adams, that casts doubt that all matter was created in the Big Bang event. Fred Hoyle, who originally coined the term 'Big Bang' as a put-down, believed that matter was created over and over from exploded stars. We have assigned a date to something that many thoughtful people doubt ever happened, and may have as much truth value as dating when Adam and Eve left Eden.
Are we certain about when the first mammals arrived, the first monkeys, the first humans, and the beginning of language? Not only is Calleman's list selective, but all these dates are built on no more than guesses. It would take me quite a lot of space to lay out my case, but all super long-term dating methods, like tree rings, geologic strata, ice cores...are all based on simple assumptions that can be cast into doubt, and I mean serious doubt. I can't find the reference (it may have been one of the Leakey family who said it), but I recall reading that all the human fossil record could be laid out in a medium sized room, and it is from those measly scraps that scientists tell us that they can date the evolution of human beings.
Calleman is accepting all of that pretty uncritically, and basing a mathematical pattern on it. If those dates are wrong, Calleman's divine wave pattern is wrong.
| Fintan wrote: | | It seems to me we can measure the accuracy of the Mayan system in these ways far more acutely than the Yugas |
That's why I think the Great Year model I presented above seems more like science to me...because it doesn't purport to predict specific events. It only predicts a wide probability of conditions, in a similar way that the repeating cycle of Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter does. It tells you it's probably going to be colder or warmer, but it doesn't pretend it can predict what you're going to have for lunch 2 years from now. I think that is realistic in any complex system. |
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James D
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 612
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Funny you should mention human fossils urbanspaceman, they're popping up all over today :-
Synchronicity or what?
Scientists hail stunning fossil
Missing link found? Scientists unveil fossil of 47 million-year-old primate, Darwinius masillae
The missing link? Some are not so sure.
It looks like a dead cat to me, but what do I know?! |
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Peter
Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 1996
Location: The Canadian shield
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 3:32 pm Post subject: just another brick in the wall.... |
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We humans are masters of perception-related pattern recognition.
Staring at a piece of burnt toast can reveal an iconic image.
The materialist cites the measurable nature of the physical realm as his interpretive basis.
The spiritualist cites the inherent nature of the physical realm as his.
Cycles occur. What they mean and how they may or may not be interpreted is moot. We are just part of the decor....but the part that means the most to us!
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The grand design, reflected in the face of Chaos. |
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kunrig
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Could someone please tell me (or maybe Finton can if he sees this) what the name of the 60 seconds of music is that he plays after the 'May 5th Mayan Rebirth & the Homo Superior' interview with Calleman? I can't quite hear it when he mentions the name. Thanks  |
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katrinav
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1
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Fintan
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 5567
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| Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | kunrig:
What the name of the 60 seconds of music.... |
It was a minute from "This Binary Universe"
The good stuff starts about 4 minutes into the video:
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Minds are like parachutes.
They only function when open. |
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kunrig
Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Great! Thanks Fintan.  |
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SuperstarNeilC
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: Manchester, England
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Fintan
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:36 am Post subject: Audio Interview: Surfing The Mayan 9th Wave |
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The Beautiful Truth Show - 18th March, 2010
LISTEN:
Broadband Mp3 Audio 
http://BreakForNews.com/audio/BeautifulTruth-10-03-18-dsl.mp3
Click to Play or Right-Click to 'Save As' and Download.
Dialup Mp3 Audio
http://BreakForNews.com/audio/BeautifulTruth-10-03-18-dialup.mp3
Click to Play or Right-Click to 'Save As' and Download.
| Quote: | 
Link to Barnes & Noble > |
| Quote: | New Course Added!
Understanding the Mayan Calendar
with Carl Johan Calleman
Mar 09 2010 08:31 AM
We are pleased to announce that Carl Johan Calleman is teaching "Understanding the Mayan Calendar and the Transformation of Consciousness" through the International Metaphysical University, an online university dedicated entirely to the "exploration of consciousness through education." Understanding the workings of the Mayan Calendar and its role in the transformation of consciousness is critical at this time in history as the end of the Mayan Calendar nears.
Learn about the Mayan Calendar directly from renowned author and Mayan Calendar expert Carl Johan Calleman in this 12-week interactive online course! Take advantage of this uncommon opportunity to interact directly with Dr. Calleman and other students of the Mayan Calendar online!
http://intermetu.com/blog/files/266eb2c8f6705a0d5250a4bd1ddef44e-10.html |
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curious george
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 363
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Great Audio...love that perspective but think we could be missing something.
Humans and animals alike must protect there bodies to survive the earth plane.
If we as infants are fortunate to make it to adulthood; our bodies, minds and spirits will evolve. This analogous to everything we do. Our biggest physical structures all have the body's preservation in the forefront as it takes our bodies to build them. Bridges, weapons, Buildings, ships, automobiles; etc all preserve the body and thus allow the mind and spirit to evolve further.
The mind and the spirit don't technically need body movement to evolve as sitting idle we can think, visualize, pray and/or meditate; however without the luxury's of our physical structures/shelter we don't have the protected space to rest/evolve in mind and spirit.
The mainstream say that pyramids were solely used to evolve spiritually. This is an incomplete perspective as the natural order of the evolution on the earth plane is body first then the mind and finally the spirit.
Come on skeptics....Lets question the status quo of pyramids!!!...It's in our face and very obvious!
Were Pyramids first built to survive monster waves? They were water tight with living compartments. I know these are broad questions but by further study of there locations relative to the ocean, sea levels, historic floods, etc; we could narrow our conclusions.
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It has been said that "curiosity" killed the cat but it might be more accurately stated that "seriousity" killed the cat. |
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arkestra
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 271
Location: Dubhlinn
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Compelling stuff .
Commitment . Intention. Two words that blared out for me.
First time I came across the mayan calendar years ago was thru an ex
Friend of a very new ageish leaning. I totally dismissed it.
Interesting at that time he saw it as ‘the end of the world’
Now he sees it as this magical cosmical new age style rapture.
Both appear to be so apart but now I see a connection, they’re
Both very self absorbed fantastical views. This old friend of mine
Sees himself as deeply spiritual but is possibly the
Most thoughtless selfish person I’ve ever known. He’s also
In to some of the more out there conspiracy theories. Coincidence? Nah!
When I did eventually look a lil deeper in to the mayan calendar
I jus saw it as a fascinating misnomer, very impressive but couldn’t quite
Grasp why it should be important. But its beginning to feel personal now,
Attuned to my own consciousness and its evolution thru the last so many
Years seemingly endless turmoil, inspiration and challenges.
But those dramatic cycles and its dualistic terrain have not necessarily
Levelled out but my perception of them has changed also bringing
With it a sense of calmness armed with a sense of resolution , for
Understanding and a desire to express these feelings in a way tha
Spreads the resonance of tha energy rather than bashing people over
The head with info that just aint gonna stick at this moment in time.
Or throwing up info tha doesn’t quite fit together as much as you’d like
It to.
It also seems to me this idea of some people of being on different levels
is subjective too. Compare someone who still buys the whole global warming baloney BUT shows extraordinary sensitivity to the land and water by not polluting it, growing their own organic veg etc compared to someone who is well aware of the global warming scam but doesn’t really pay much attention to how their personal actions affect the Welfare of future generations etc.
I've always had a problem with the term 'sheeple' and its polarising dualism to its supposed 'enlightened' ones. There are so many anomalies with this kind of elitist subjectivity.
Surely there is an opportunity for a convergence of consciousness
and less of this ridiculing of others who dont see beyond certain aspects of the matrix.
The internet has given people The opportunity to acquire a lot of knowledge and understanding very quickly But a sense of responsibility has still yet to sink in for many.
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arkestra
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 271
Location: Dubhlinn
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| Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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And of course the Beatles(lennon) rEvolution 9
Lennon said it is-
'an unconscious picture of what I actually think will happen when it happens; that was just like a drawing of revolution'
The intro to this vid says many have a mysterious, unexplainable
feeling when listening to this song, some become frightened & scared,
others remain unfeeling
Well ive always loved this and embraced
the dissonance, its waves of apparent confusion
bringing a certain sense of harmony from chaos.
Embrace it, ride the waves, we have absolutely no
control but we can have purpose and we can have
spirit. Yep these times do appear to be dissonant,
confusing and apocalyptic to many. But within tha chaos
is harmony, always was ,always is, always will.
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Get thee to a nunnery! |
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curious george
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 363
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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The mayan calendar doesn't have to just be a spiritual evolvement calendar nor just a end of the world calender as it could be somewhere in the middle.
The physical plane of earth continues to change and the mayan elders may not even be privy of this knowledge or at least willing to share it as only a minor few people could secure there space in the few remaining places that would exist if a major flood were to occur.
The population of the world is approaching monumental levels and why aren't the world leaders establishing encouraging population controls?...are they privy to info that would natural solve this problem?
The elite could have there seats on in underground facilities or cruise ships or mountain tops?...Why does china want the massive Tibetan plateaus?
Come on people...a mainstream opinion exists on the Internet too and the mainstream opinion here is that the mayan calender is only about spiritual evolvement. The mainstream public dismiss movies like 2012 and it was so outrageous that it made u think that no one could even survive it on a massive cruise ship.
any reall out of the box thinkers?...or we going to let the hosts of websites only think for us?
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It has been said that "curiosity" killed the cat but it might be more accurately stated that "seriousity" killed the cat. |
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curious george
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 363
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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The dollar is going uup....just like I said it would in Nov...what did our host say?.....Gold is also going down just like I said...what did our host say?
God Bless Fintan but we all have to think for ourselves too!
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Fintan
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| curious george wrote: | The dollar is going uup....just like I said it would in Nov...what did our host say?
Gold is also going down just like I said...what did our host say?
God Bless Fintan but we all have to think for ourselves too! |
You seems to imply that I said the reverse of you.
But let's not rewrite history, shall we?
Here's what I actually said about the dollar:
| Quote: | I agree the Dollar is wide open to a rebound.
But only for a brief period (if at all).
Link |
I agreed with you!
Anyway I was never cheer-leading a particular view:
| Quote: | But as ever - don't believe the hype (either positive or negative).
There are vested interests advancing their own agendas.
Link |
Those vested interests I warned of have used a wall of propaganda
to play up problems in Greece instead of in California, so to speak.
Using the Euro to lever the dollar. They may reverse play at any time.
I'm still long term bear-ish on the dollar and bull-ish gold.
I'm still not expecting either of those two moves to be linear.
In fact, as volatility is sooo profitable for Wall $t., I still expect volatility.
We'd be better discussing in the Dollar/Gold thread. Thanks!
http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5394
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