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Our Future Vision: Full Spectrum Liberty -inc. Audio
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Our Future Vision: Full Spectrum Liberty -inc. Audio Reply with quote

Back in January I started a thread called: "Serious: Why are we at this forum?".
At the time I did not disclose why I was here because I did not want to
influence anyone else's input. Like most, I'm here because I want to:

1. learn and understand what is really going on in the world.
2. be around people who have, for the most part, already awoken to the issues.
3. openly and sincerely discuss issues and ideas without getting flamed by
those "compartmentalized" by so many psy-op paradigms.

But lastly and most importantly, I want to be able to transcend the
dissection and analysis of what the elites are doing ("to us") and invest
time in creating a vision for the future. We spend a lot of time trying to
figure out and combat the elite's roadmap for our future, without having
one for ourselves. I'd like to flip things around, and work on establishing
our own vision, our own plan, then let the damn elites see if they can
compete in the global network of ideas. With the power of the Web, we
now have equal footing in that marketplace of ideas, but what we don't
have are our own set of competing ideas.

I frequently study the military industrial complex, looking to their long
term strategies for ideas and concepts that can be leveraged to our own
benefit. There is one military concept that I believe Rumsfeld created
called Full Spectrum Dominance. My understanding is that the military's
goal is to completely overwhelm the enemy, with total military, economic,
psychological and communications dominance.... until the enemy is
completely overwhelmed and simply capitulates.

Well, to start with, I'd like to make an attempt at turning that concept on
its head....something I call Full Spectrum Liberty. What I casually
define as a system of global liberty so pervasive, so ingrained into the
psyche of each individual, that no elite, no government, no individual can
negatively impact it.

To get back to the initial reason for my earlier thread on "Serious: Why are we at this forum?,"
I am interested in working with a group of folks, like those on this forum,
in an effort to define a vision for FSL. Some questions I ask myself are:

- What might FSL look like in 100 years?
- How will the money supply be created and managed?
- What do national border look like?
- How do states maintain security without infringing individual's rights?
- How do we insure proper citizen oversight on the public domain?

The list of questions goes on and on and on.

But for me, this is where I'd like to spend my energy. I think we all have
a pretty good handle on what the elites want to do and how they have
psyop'd us for ever. We obviously need to keep telling the story to other's
who are only just starting to awaken. But I think that selling a positive
vision for how society can be engineered can be extremely appealing, and
perhaps lower the barrier of entry to sites such as B4N.

As always, let me know what you think.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:35 am    Post subject: Audio: Full Spectrum Liberty & More Reply with quote

Audio: Full Spectrum Liberty
The Perfect Antidote to Donald Rumsfeld.

A system of global liberty so pervasive,
so ingrained into the psyche of each individual,
that no elite, no government, no individual can
negatively impact it.

Forum Member Navari joins Fintan Dunne to Discuss.

Plus: Dr. Al Sears on the fallacies of the wrong
kind of exercise and the benefits of the right!


Brother identifies man who died while jogging
Friday, 9 February 2007
A jogger who collapsed and died while running in an inner Auckland street at the weekend has been identified
by his brother, police said today. The jogger, Gary Michael Nausbaum, 66, collapsed along Ponsonby Rd, on Saturday afternoon.

"The Next Level" Internet Radio Show

DSL Mp3 Audio

Dialup Mp3 Audio


Last edited by Fintan on Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:41 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here! Here!
Well spoken navari

I've long pined at the lack of "good news" available out there. The world is resplendent with armchair quarterbacks quick to show how the world is broke, but few, who are in evidence, promoting their ideas of how things could be better. Much germane to our discussions about "The Secret" - wherever we spend our thought-forming energies, life (form) will emerge therefrom. I think we all have some ideas about how things could be better and if we all shared those ideas it would (1) show there are other 'birds of a feather' out there, (2) spark the creative process in all participants, each idea becoming developed, refined, encouraged, etc, in an iterative-co-creative process (3) demonstrate what others are actually doing to create a better world, etc, etc, and ultimately to give LIFE to those ideas.

Consider the following metaphor:
Picture a coral reef (rigid, crystaline-like structure) with many holes/passagways in it's twixt and twain. Growing in, around, and thru this structure are the more supple-flexible plant life. Consider the old-world-ways being the coral reef and the new-thought ways ("grasssroots") as the plant-life. As the plant life has some, yet little, influence to change the coral structure, we (the grassroots) have been hard pressed to make changes in the old-world-ways. Hope springs from the thought that if we, the grassroots, self-develop a new and better way to live in the world, when the old-way crystalline structure self-crumbles-destructs (e.g., due to it's inflexibility, or one "tap" in the right place, or no-one pays them any attention anymore, etc), then we'll be there ready and able to carry on, to allow the fruits and blossoms of our efforts to be realized in the full light of day. (or something like that)

This, of course, infers/suggests, our efforts may be more wisely spent co-creating a new and better way of living together rather than re/de-constructing a system that may be too far gone to bother messing with. If we start from a new and different foundation for our development, it might be better than starting with the old-way and patching and hacking it to make it kinda a better way. (something akin to the problems M$ encountered attempting to create a windows world on the foundation of the MS-DOS paradigm rather than, e.g., Apple, C3 and others, starting afresh with a new foundation).

Personally, my bets are on the old system crumbling under its own weight - ain't no need to spend anymore energy trying to fix it. It follows, we better be prepared to have something in place to replace it.

I am greatly encouraged, as I look around out there, there are many, MANY, who are taking the 'grassroots' approach, dreaming, experimenting, enacting new and better ways of being together on this planet. This, in turn, inspires, encourages, and emboldens us all to strive for our ideals more and more, 'better and better'.

I agree with Navari, BFN may be one of the great places to bring this into the public forum - into the light of day. A place to share our ideas/ideals/inspirations and to highlight/consider others doing the same.

Perhaps we'd consider going beyond the "Liberty" theme, encompassing all/many aspects of life (e.g., spiritual, mental (e.g, philosophical), and physical (e.g, science, arts, health and well-being), etc). hmmmmm, seems like BFN already encompasses this breadth of consideration Wink

In the spirit of getting the ball rolling, following are a few links to folks who are already underway envisioning and enacting such better ways, offered here for your information, elucidation, and consideration (including some BFN-esque analysis of them, perhaps). It seems appropriate to share what others are doing so as to minimize our own re-inventing of the wheel, so to speak, and providing avenues for others to find and join-in with like-minded birds-of-a-feather.

yes! Magazine

Tom Atlee's Co-Intelligence Institute

Resurgence Magazine

Cultural Creatives

and, how about, Dennis Kucinich & Co.s campaign for a Department of Peace?
(while this may be along the lines of trying to fix the old-world ways, and influenced by who-knows-who, at least some of their underlying principals are noteworthy)

after-note: even though there are those out there who would promote their ideals and noble causes for, hmmmm, shall we say, less than noble purposes, there may be embodied in their work, ideas of value we can extract for the 'grassroots' effort. (viz., while it's well known the Bible may have been concocted/manipulated beyond our imagination, there remains (divine) threads of wisdom, keys to life, we can extract and employ in building our new foundations, or at least worthy of consideration - baby-and-the-bathwater kinda thing)

Blessings and Goodwill to All
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice, when you step up this far above the boxes, they're smaller than atoms...i was going to open with some quip about kicking the boxes to pieces, but they're so insignificant from this vantage point, that there's no need

great stuff, Steve (Navari)...i had wondered where you were headed with your 'Why are we Here' thread - Full Spectrum Liberty ? Cool

these are some very tricky issues, however, you've made some vital first steps which are very impressive - i love the idea of turning that shit Rumsfeld's notions of bullying, around - with the caveat (that i'm sure you're aware of) that in an ideal world (which might never be possible given the machinations we see from 'our leaders') none of this duality would be necessary, and therefore, there would be no 'them' to have oversight of

great audio too, folks...here in UK things are similar yet different, and i don't know how we could apply the same ideas here, but it would certainly spread once initiated elsewhere, so that in itself is cause for hope

i think (though i am not sure) that the recent changes to the British banking system have brought about here, a similar situation of paper money-profit, as you have there in America

another great idea is to flip 1984 around, replace the distopia with a vision we can take to people in answer to the "blah blah, this system isn't perfect, but there's nothing better" - we all KNOW that's crap, but with the roadmap to an actual replacement ? we can tackle that weak line of reason

i suspect i'm not alone in noticing the fearful, panicky attacks on the many of us who see the code behind this matrix, and so many more are seeing the glitches and holes, that we have the numbers...and it looks very much like we can have the ideas too

let's get positively proacative, rather than reactive

JeffS's coral-plant analogy is cool too, i like it, well put Jeff Smile

the coral is looking very flaky indeed

hey, bliar - intimidate this:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:13 am    Post subject: Visionary Leadership Reply with quote


I've just finished listening to the first half of the audio and it was a very good discussion. I had read your post soon after you posted it and I thought how it resonated with recent audios I'd been listening to.

Yep, once again I will give some links to The Wonders. Look I don't know if anyone has been willing to put aside their own prejudices about information coming from a 'disincarnate' source but if only some would.

Now for a rant I must say for people who are supposedly open to new concepts, this to me seems to be one area which many can't seem to grapple with. Who gives a rats where the information comes from. If it has some truth to it, why not listen. Aah, that feels better. Very Happy

Have a look at the description of some of the recent audios where they talk about finding visionary leaders. These, I would have thought, would fit in nicely with what Steve is talking about.

# January 16, 2007 The Wonders discuss visionary leadership and their efforts to assist the creation of this movement.

# January 17, 2007 Expanding on the concepts explored in Tuesday's show, The Wonders discuss visionary leadership and their efforts to assist the creation of this movement.

# January 18, 2007 The Wonders continue the expansion on visionary leadership by answering listeners' and Maggie's questions.

# January 30, 2007 241 emails achieved!!! The Wonders continue discussions on visionary leadership.

# January 31, 2007 The Wonders discuss how, in practical ways, a visionary leadership must be inclusive.

# February 01, 2007 The Wonders discuss how to create visionary leadership over the next few generations, and expand on the social structure needed for this.

# February 06, 2007 The Wonders continue the discussion of changing the education system in a practical way. Also a cure for aids is given.

# February 07, 2007 The Wonders provide practical solutions to expanding the use of The Defining Statements in society, from the ground up. Billboard advertising also discussed.

# February 08, 2007 The Wonders explore the corporate and political changes that could take place, as well as the direction humanity could choose as it travels to other planetary systems.


When I get a chance I will try and type up some notes on some of the shows which are related to the topic.

Oh, by the way, the last few shows on 'The Nature Of Reality' have been quite interesting too. Wink



Choices For Your Soul
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great show, great ideas Navari!
The anticipated never happens. The unexpected constantly occurs
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since listening to the Audio "Jesus Jihad" a couple of days ago, whenever I try to click on any of Fintan's Audios, I get a message saying "Bad Request"! Now I know this is probably just a cookie problem, and not the work of Satan Twisted Evil but I am so damn frustrated that I can't get to hear this latest Audio! I really could have done with hearing this today.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, too, enjoyed this audio.. thank you Navari for bringing up the positive topic, and Fin for inviting Navari onto the show. It's nice to hear our own members discuss things.

I was thinking of starting a thread on the Thinking Zone, perhaps calling it "Part of the Solution." I have been practicing certain "New Thought" things which anyone can find in books by any number of authors, such as Emmet Fox, Florence Scovel-Schin, etc.
What I had in mind was not quite a plan to reorganize humanity, per say, on some collective level. Just common mental & spiritual (not religious) practices that put us individuals in positions of opportunity, or ways to refocus from adversity and instead turn it into progress.
There are a small group of folks in my personal network of friends who also are "students" of "New Thought," and we agree that it works, has been working, and will continue to work successfully in our lives.
There are a few in my network who will not subscribe to it. They are not enjoying the same results. I have hope for them, because I started reading this stuff in the late 80's and early 90's, but was not convinced until I had no choice during a disastrous time of my life, wherein I had 2 choices - continue my dead-end life or trust in a better way. Trust was a beginning, but action is what it takes.

But, on to the topic at hand... I would like to participate, no doubt. Only a fool on the sidelines would not care to work together. And let him or her sit there, along with the nay-sayers, and the mf'ers who will deliberately get in our way. We should over-step them and not look back.
They will either come around and help, or fade out because we should be relentless in our progress.

I much rather work in the positive energies of our minds, and not debate how to put a militia together... which we've come close to doing a few times in other threads, mistakenly. I admit it, when I'm angry enough, aggression is easy to imagine or want. But it's truly not the way, especially since what goes around comes around. We would never be able to trust one another if violence was the method.

So, from me, I'd like to begin by saying that money may be the first issue to ponder, because it is the vehicle to get things done AND the problem which ruins great ideas.
Meantime, the www is our forum.


ps - Dale, try right-clicking and saving the file to your harddrive.

just cos things are fucked up doesn't mean it isn't progress...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bravo, Navari!

The idea of putting police and public servants under camera surveillance which can be accessed live on the web by the public....that's a stroke of genius! Current technology could provide some of those much needed checks and balances in the future.

On the subject of "Full Spectrum": I've been studying the work of American philosopher Ken Wilber for over 10 years, and his philosophy is very much about taking a "super-holistic" approach to any and all subjects, which is called "Integral"....you could call it "full spectrum" too. About seven or eight years ago he founded the Integral Institute. It's a think tank, a community, and now an online university, that very much deals with the issue of how to move individuals and the planet toward a healthier future. This community is very strong on the spiritual, psychological, and philosophical side of things, but not so much on the political. That's what's great about BreakforNews, it's really strong on exposing propaganda and the fake left, which most Wilberians aren't that aware of. For example, Wilber has seemed a bit too enamored in the recent past that Clinton and Gore had read one of his books, hoping that the people in power would implement his ideas, but I think he was a bit naive that these liers would use his ideas for the common good. But Integral Theory has loads of useful ideas about where humanity is going, and where it can go in the future....but of course the future is always up to us and it's not a given.

Navari wrote:
- What do national borders look like (in 100 years)?

I think you're implying here that in a flat, globally networked world, national borders would, perhaps, not be needed. My initial thought on this is that a healthy state is going to reflect the structure of a healthy human body, for example. If we look to something that's already healthy in nature, it's a good idea to try and take the lead from nature. If you think of a human body beginning from a few biological cells, and eventually building on that to create this complex system we call the body, notice that as the body grows the boundaries of the cells are the organs are maintained -- they are not dissolved as the structure gets more complex. So just as a healthy body means healthy autonomous boundaries between the parts of the body, a healthy planet would maintain healthy autonomous boundaries too. This, I believe, is how we start to see the difference between healthy and sick globalism. In healthy globalism, there's no reason to throw out the boundaries of counties, states/provinces, nations, continents, just as in in a healthy body there's no reason to throw out boundaries between cells, organs, and the skin on the outside. I don't believe current political borders have to change very much.....it's how those borders function that might change. Like the skin on your body a political border protects what's inside, and hopefully interacts in a healthy way with the environment on the outside.

A topic that is central to envisioning the future is this notion of hierarchical vs. flat systems. Is the future moving toward a flat, globally networked system? Fintan's brought this up quite a number of times. Wilber is someone who has been defending the idea of hierarchy for many years, against those who think the best move is to demolish all hierarchy. He argues that there is no getting away from hierarchy...nature herself contains hierarchies....so what we have to choose from is a sick vs. a healthy hierarchy. He calls the sick ones "dominator hierarchies", and the healthy ones "holarchies".

With this idea in mind, I think it is unrealistic and naive to expect a flat and leaderless system to prevail in the future. We should continue to increase awareness and try and turn the tide of the 'dumbing down' of the population by the elites, but to a expect the entire planet "thinking for themselves" all at the same level doesn't seem likely, or even desirable. One of the things that Wilber emphasizes is that the human population is all at different levels of awareness and understanding, and that has to be taken into account. People taking leadership is a natural thing....the problem now isn't that there are world leaders at the top making decisions, it's that the world leaders are sickos! We need a system that promotes mature, healthy, and moral people to the top, so that they can guide people who are less mature to become mature people themselves. I mean, let's face it, the breakfornews forum is not entirely flat....Fintan is in a sense a leader and a visionary, and many of us are happy to follow his lead. There is an understanding, though, that all of us can grow and mature through the help and guidance of others who are ahead of us (ie. it's not a caste system where the people on the bottom stay on the bottom forever).

One of the concepts that I've come across through Integral circles is the structure of government called Sociocracy. I've read that earlier examples of it began with the Quakers. Some in Integral circles are starting to employ what they call "Holacracy", which is an updated version of a sociocracy. Here's how it was described by someone on the Integral Institute website:

Decisions Made by Consent
The consent principle governs decision-making. The principle of consent is the method of decision-making whereby the arguments presented in discussing a decision are of paramount importance, and the result of the discussion is that no one present has a reasoned and paramount objection to the decision being made.

Circle Structure
The organization is built of a hierarchy of circles. A circle is a group of persons who are functionally related. Each circle has its own aim and has the authority and responsibility to execute, measure, and control its own activities and to maintain an appropriate level of knowledge and skill assisted by integral training.

Double Linking
A lower circle is always linked to a higher circle in such a way that at least two persons, including the person with leadership accountability for the circle and at least one elected representative from that particular circle, belong to and take part in the decision making of the next higher circle.

Elections by Consent
To the extent permitted by law, persons are elected to functions and roles exclusively by consent after open discussion.

source: http://multiplex.integralinstitute.org/Public/cs/forums/thread/18009.aspx

What's interesting is the hierarchical circle structure...this is the healthy hierarchy found in nature (recall Milo Wolff's atomic structure, which is spheres within spheres within spheres). It's different from the pyramid hierarchy, which is oppressive. So I think a healthy body politic in the future is going to be variations on this nested spherical structure. It's a structure that, if done right, could encourage the wise and moral leaders to rise to the higher circles.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedMahna wrote:
I admit it, when I'm angry enough, aggression is easy to imagine or want.

There's no reason to be ashamed of aggression! It's something that is often labeled as bad by peace loving people. But anger and aggression are good! Aggression is nothing more than natural creative energy. If we get pissed off and feel aggressive, that can be a good thing, because we'll be motivated to do something. We shouldn't get rid of aggression, we should channel it to a positive purpose.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall that Spalding Grey had a keen observation in his 'Swimming to Cambodia' rap.

He mentioned the 7th century time in northern India being in a period for a while of peace, having run out attackers and securing a strong position for the region.
During the peacetime, a golden age ensued, when focus went to a higher paradimg. He said, "And the Tantrics became so free and loving, that suddenly the Huns were able to come down and gobble them up like chocolate covered cherries." In other words they got 'soft'.
I think aggression is natural when it's triggered by survival instinct.
And this is why on the David Lynch inerview topic I took issue with Lynch saying 'Don't worry about the negative in the world. Turn within'.
Turning within may be the wrong direction. I think where we're heading in the 'treeincarnation' sense is dissolving the perception that it comes down to 'either or' turning in or out--that's dualistic thinking.

A vulnerability in positive paradigm shifting seems to be that a generation weakens in the survival instinct department. Everyone was very much en guard by the visible (and staged) 1992 exit of GHW Bush and his new world materialist order.
The Clinton intermission and a certain overconfidence in the superiority of our paradigm made people forget that organized material aggression still packs a hell of a wallop. Lawyers, guns, and money are still like the rock that can smash the butterfly or the loutus.

I think that the paradigm shift movement saw the widow of opportunity of a velvet glove period. They also were correct in assesment of the time frame--many were shooting for paradim shift by the Millineum.

McKenna was wise to set the date for 2012. Whether he really foresaw the 2001 'smack down' from the materialists I'm not sure. He certainly didn't see his own death coming.

With benefit of retrospect I concluded in 2001 that if we'd managed to hang on to our heightened survival instinct and waryiness of the overlords that we had in 1992, the smackdown wouldn't have just rolled over us like a '51 Chevy over a bananna.

So as we seem to be going into another brief and superficial 'velvet glove' coupla years, we mustn't forget a thing.
More importantly, oppression sobers. It wakes people up. It builds courage of convictions.
It's a restoration of stock of 'virtue' as Kung Fu Tzu said. To me it's clear that the materialists understand that, so they have the velvet glove intermission to throw entertainments at us to weaken our resolve and basically--get us all drunk. We've got to stop falling for that.

The anticipated never happens. The unexpected constantly occurs
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant getting agressive here on BFN and contemplating running over the Capitol, and shit like that.

Hell, I'd love to put our leaders in front of a firing squad. And I may be wrong in saying that.
I am not against having armed forces to protect our country.

Just not into organizing some militia.

I am far from being a love-beaded hippie (no offense).


just cos things are fucked up doesn't mean it isn't progress...
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